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F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

bbc.co.uk

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Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#171

Post by oijaf888 »

thedrbrian wrote: post #96
gambiting wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered,that technologies developed for F1 by lets say....Mercedes, can later be used in their regular cars and therefore improve efficiency of not just a single F1 car,but millions of cars on the road? With the promotion of turbochargers in F1, a stupid amount of research is going to go into them - and they are used in pretty much every diesel car on the road now, so if the technology can be improved fur…

The £300 million that the f1 teams have wasted on these engines is a drop in the bucket compared to what all the manufacturers spend on their road cars. And none of the tech comes out of f1 , only in.

Nothing has ever been developed in F1 that has made it into road cars? What about active suspension, sequential gear boxes, etc?

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#172

Post by oijaf888 »

Swizec wrote: post #8
sanoli wrote: post #5

There are so many rules dictating the design of an F1 chassis/engine that I wonder how much faster a "anything goes" car would go.

This video is an interesting comparison of just how fast F1 cars are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cNqaPSHv0 IIRC some of those GT cars that look like snails compared to F1 cars are "anything goes". However, here is a truly anything goes car (that has broken the speed barrier on land): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKQ-xj5C2m8 So yeah, an anything goes car will go much faster than an F1 car. But it's going to su…

I wonder how a modern day CanAm car would compare to F1 cars. At the time the CanAm cars were producing far more power (Porsche 917/30 ~1,580hp) than F1 and still had to handle.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#173

Post by vadman »

sheri wrote: post #25

The video mentions that the aerodynamics of the car generates so much down-force that it could ride upside-down on the ceiling. Wow.

I think the majority of such claims are misunderstandings of "generates downforce equal to its own weight" which is most certainly not enough to drive upside down.

The only case of a manufacturer actually wanting to perform a test was Gumpert with Apollo, according to Top Gear UK (take it FWIW).

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#174

Post by bliti »

pedrocr wrote: post #169
bliti wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still a bit confused with the article. It does mention that they are not using wastegates. Excerpt: Instead of a waste-gate, the motor will convert that excess energy into electricity by preventing the turbo from over-speeding. I reason that they are using resistance on the electric motor to reduce the speed of the turbine. It makes more sense now. They can control the electric motor better than any wastegate by…

>The resistance can then be immediately removed and boost would become available instantly because it would be spinning near the full-boost RPM You don't need to remove the resistance to get boost if you've only used the resistance to avoid overspeed. You've limited the turbine to max RPM and thus max boost. You only need to remove resistance or even reverse it and have the electric motor spin up the turbine when the…

Yes, good point. Though I see this technology being used like KERS was used to preload the suspension and improve cornering. Mini boost spikes would be a possibility. In fact, an extra bit of power at the right moment can preload the suspension, too. I'm not saying they will cheat with it, but they will find a way to bend the rules a little bit. After all, you are only racing if you are cheating. :)

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#175

Post by sk5t »

bliti wrote: post #162
sk5t wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced induction is now much more common in the US than it was five or ten years ago, even on gasoline engines. Most new BMWs in the US are turbocharged, Ford is EcoBoosting the venerable F-150, and GM has an interesting mix of turbo- and supercharged engines.

Ford and GM have been selling supercharged vehicles since the 80's. GM doing it in their standard family sedan lines across their many brands. Supercharging is a bit easier to manage and pull off in terms of emissions and packaging. The power gains are not as great (when comparing an Eaton supercharger (what they used commonly) to a turbocharger of relevant size (I think a T3 turbo in .42 trim would compare). They ar…

Agreed that the domestics have been doing FI for a while, although many of the earlier turbos (like the Omni GLH, Spirit R/T, Thunderbird SC, Turbo Trans-Am, DSMs, Regal T-Type/GN) were fairly niche-oriented cars. Successors like the supercharged Buick 3800 in the Grand Prix GXP and Bonneville SSEI brought it a little more into the mainstream, but these were still marketed as a performance bump rather than taking the modern everyday economy and reliability angle.

I never heard nice things about the reliability of the Corrado's G-lader... not that the 12V VR6 is a marvel of easy maintenance either, but people seem to prefer them.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#176

Post by gambiting »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #150
gambiting wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then on the other hand, diesel requires less work to be done to get it than petrol(gasoline) does. Both arguments are perfectly valid. And most EU countries(with the stark exception of UK) have diesel a lot cheaper than petrol.

Define "a lot"? Here in Switzerland at least diesel is more (by about 7%, not a lot). Since most of the cost of fuel here is taxes, I assume the difference between petrol and diesel is also due to differential taxation. One of the things that has kept diesel out of the USA until recently is the diesel fuel was good enough for heavy trucks to meet truck emissions standards but wasn't good enough for diesel cars to mee…

>>Most EU countries

>Here in Switzerland

The last time I checked Switzerland was not in the EU.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#177

Post by oijaf888 »

protomyth wrote: post #100
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's NASCAR, not F1. In F1 you see real cars, doing real curves, not the thing NASCAR does like having a car that only could turn one way. In F1 you see cars going through the streets of Monaco or Valencia, or German circuits that you could race yourself with your own car. BTW I do it.

NASCAR has road tracks so stop the stupid and tell the truth. I like NASCAR because F1 feels too teched up and NASCAR doesn't even give the driver a fuel gauge or speedometer. Plus all that weight and those small breaks. And just to stop another stereotype, I hate wrecks and cautions and I haven't met anyone who does. NASCAR is also the most fan friendly sport with a huge amount of fan interaction with the drivers an…

Not very many NASCAR tracks are road tracks, looks like 5 out of 29. I don't believe NASCAR has ever (or at least in the past decade or so) raced an actual street course though. E.g. similar to the Monaco GP, Montreal GP or for ALMS, Baltimore GP.

Isn't the lack of fuel gauges more due to them being inaccurate if you are at a 30 degree slant and back to level? I believe they use fuel pressure gauges to indicate if they are running out of fuel.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#178

Post by chaz »

corin_ wrote: post #170
chaz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just about every pro sports league needs to manage its rules to ensure that the playing field gets leveled every season. For example, NFL draft picks are in reverse order of season success. If last year's Super Bowl winner was able to choose their next team on a completely free market, they would simply use their boosted revenue and pay the most for the best players, thus making it much more likely that they'll incre…

Outside of America there are far more sports that don't try to even the playing field artificially. Motor racing (I don't know much about non-F1 racing anyway) is pretty much the limit in the UK, team games generally work on the free market, individual games can generally be dominated by great individuals.

Wage restrictions in Premier League would act similar to NFL salary caps: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2274957/Fi.... Also, the foreign player rule: http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/home-grown-play...

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#179

Post by corin_ »

chaz wrote: post #178
corin_ wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of America there are far more sports that don't try to even the playing field artificially. Motor racing (I don't know much about non-F1 racing anyway) is pretty much the limit in the UK, team games generally work on the free market, individual games can generally be dominated by great individuals.

Wage restrictions in Premier League would act similar to NFL salary caps: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2274957/Fi... . Also, the foreign player rule: http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/home-grown-play...

FFP is generally considered slightly better than nothing, but only just - it's a joke. It's talked about as if it will stop clubs like Man City and Chelsea dominate financially, but it only affects TV money, not any other sources of income (e.g. sponsorships), so realistically it is going to have hardly any effect. Even if it was implemented in a stronger way, it would still only serve to bring football closer to how it was 20 years ago before big money owners were so prominent, it would never take it to a US-sports level where they try to balance teams out completely.

The foreign player rule is about trying to boost national players rather than international players and has nothing to do with trying to even the (metaphorical) playing field.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#180

Post by protomyth »

oijaf888 wrote: post #177
protomyth wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NASCAR has road tracks so stop the stupid and tell the truth. I like NASCAR because F1 feels too teched up and NASCAR doesn't even give the driver a fuel gauge or speedometer. Plus all that weight and those small breaks. And just to stop another stereotype, I hate wrecks and cautions and I haven't met anyone who does. NASCAR is also the most fan friendly sport with a huge amount of fan interaction with the drivers an…

Not very many NASCAR tracks are road tracks, looks like 5 out of 29. I don't believe NASCAR has ever (or at least in the past decade or so) raced an actual street course though. E.g. similar to the Monaco GP, Montreal GP or for ALMS, Baltimore GP. Isn't the lack of fuel gauges more due to them being inaccurate if you are at a 30 degree slant and back to level? I believe they use fuel pressure gauges to indicate if th…

Well, NASCAR only has 4 dates at 2 tracks with restrictor plates, but a lot is made of them. Cup has two course: Watkins Glen and Sonoma which each get 1 race. I do wish they would move one to the chase.

I cannot remember Cup racing a street course, but the Nationwide did in Canada and the Trucks raced on dirt[1] this year, so they might be a Cup date in the future. Nationwide ran a road course in Mexico City, so that might be a possibility for Cup.

They just don't let drivers have much info or else they'd let the drivers have a speedometer. Heck, they've banned cellphones in the car since that could be used to get performance information.

1) a Cup race on dirt is a scary thought, pitting would be odd

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