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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#171

Post by lingoberry »

otoburb wrote: post #158
lingoberry wrote: post #7

Something similar happened to me recently. I voluntarily left my job at a US employer, planning to move back home (to Sweden). But first I wanted to spend some time preparing for the move and waiting for my wife to wrap things up. The rules say you have to leave the country the last day of work, so I left for Canada to stay with a friend, and planned to come back on the visa waiver program. I consulted with the compa…

>>I had a green card on the way when I quit my job so why wouldn't I just stay if I wanted to immigrate so badly? This phrase caught my eye. Based on this, you probably thought that you could leave and enter the US at will. Ironically, during this phase of the green card process (i.e. right after the I-485 is filed and awaiting final processing for denial or a GC in the mail), my understanding is that you'll have mor…

I hadn't considered that possibility. I gave over a month notice before I left to my company as well as the immigration lawyers, but it's possible that my application was still in the system somehow.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#172

Post by mcv »

girvo wrote: post #140
davidcollantes wrote: post #78

Do, really, immigration officers ask "What the hell where you doing X?" "Aren't those countries Islamic?" There are parts on this writing that are hard to believe, like they were written to sound like a novel, but I have never been on a situation like the one described, not even close.

I've had UK and Australian Customs officers be similarly incredulous over places I've visited. Honestly, those jobs don't seem to attract the "best and brightest". Nor attract those who even have a passing familiarity with geopolitics and geography. Sigh

Why would any border guard be incredulous over anyone visiting far away places? You'd expect border guards to be used to meeting foreigners. And there's lots of foreign parts in the world.

Why would anyone visit X? Because it's there. Because people live there. Because there are things to see. What other reason do you need?

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#173

Post by chimeracoder »

berntb wrote: post #87
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

Thanks for the overview, but... I am a hard line atheist anti-idealist that don't make that much difference between islamists, socialists and astrology readers. Idealists lie to themselves and others, because they mix up their self image with their opinions -- or they are just propagandists (since they know they are correct, the target is "winning" as in convincing, not learning.) Politically, I think the US left is…

> From what I've read, the Israelis make border checks less problematic.

It's not surprising that, from what you've read, this system looks good on paper. But then again, so does stop-and-frisk in New York City, if you're white and live in the West Village or Upper East Side[0].

Israeli screening is good if you're a white, non-Arab person. Not always so great otherwise: http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-d... . (This is in the case of airport security, but the same principle applies for border checks)

Unlike the US, Israel openly profiles based on race. Aside from the fact that this is illegal in the US[0], this has a serious practical problem: confirmation bias.

Because only a subset of people feel the cost of the profiling, the rest remain blissfully unaware of the problem. From their perspective, the system works fine - "I never have any trouble going through security!".

As for 'scaling' this, keep in mind that LAX alone services more than three times the number of passengers as Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv does.

[0] http://www.nyclu.org/stopandfrisk .

[1] though that doesn't prevent it from being practiced in effect! http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/11/15/aclu-calls-fo...

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#174

Post by nols »

cstross wrote: post #157
thomasz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would appreciate if you wouldn't cite the 'world socialist website - Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International' as a reputable source. Some of their articles are surprisingly good, but it's still the publication of an obscure trotzkyist sect.

What's your problem with Trotskyite news sources? I assume most folks here are smart enough to evaluate any given news site on the basis of its accuracy and to differentiate between editorial bias and factual incorrectness. If you really can't bear to see news and opinions from sources you personally disagree with, how are you ever going to test your opinions?

That's not really how it works, you can't cite a source and then have people evaluate it on its accuracy. We don't know enough to know the accuracy, that's why you used a citation. A publication's reputation is what people use as a benchmark for its accuracy.

There are scientific studies saying smoking isn't harmful, and it's totally a coincidence they're funded by tobacco companies. That's why a source's reputation is important.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#175

Post by DanBC »

Nrsolis wrote: post #111
alan_cx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. It is a real shame, as you imply. American people have done incredible things which contribute to the world in general in a positive way, and the country its self…

I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield. I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of thi…

> and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability.

40 European languages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/...

(That's just for starters.)

In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languages spoken by people as their first language.

Some of those are from historic ties to England - such as some of the Indian languages, with languages merging into English. (Pyjama, Bungalow, Juggernaut etc etc).

> I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise)

Really? How many mainland terrorist attacks have you had? Because Europe has had a wide range of different separatist, leftist, anarchist, right-wing, etc groups setting off bombs and killing people.

EDIT: you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime.

Yes, I can go and buy a lottery ticket and win millions with a 1 in 14 million chance. The truth is that we could walk into a maternity ward in the US and predict with reasonable accuracy the children who will be poor and on drugs or in prison, and the children who will not be poor.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#176

Post by blisterpeanuts »

fn wrote: post #159
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

> I was born in Canada as it clearly states on my US passport Just wondering why you didn't enter Canada with your Canadian passport then?

I moved to the States when I was 5 and I'm a naturalized U.S. citizen. I have no Canadian passport.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#177

Post by busterarm »

techsupporter wrote: post #5
rheide wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe fix your country next time?

I honestly don't see what is broken here. No one has the unquestioned right to enter any country except one where they hold citizenship. This post documents one person who was turned away for what he felt was an unreasonable position but that's still up to the United States to decide. It may shock people on Hacker News to learn this, but many other countries turn people away for "frivolous" reasons or no reason at al…

I also have some pretty horrible experiences with the Canadian border (about as bad as the US side seems to be for most).

I was denied entry once for an entirely frivolous reason (before anyone asks, no, no criminal record or DUI or anything) and it made subsequent entries extremely difficult/stressful but I was not turned away.

Edit: That second link. Trust me on this: the worst innocent thing you can ever tell a CBSA agent is that you're dating a Canadian. Especially if the agent decides that they don't like you.

I'm also never going back to Canada, because there's nothing up there worth it for me to be treated that way.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#178

Post by misterjangles »

DanBC wrote: post #77
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

> I learned not to say I was there to take a class. Just visiting. Hope to spend lots of money. Ok, have a nice day! Isn't lying to those people a really bad idea?

The border patrol could care less whether you are a broke student or a rich tourist. They are not interested in how much you plan to spend.

So in that regard I would think you might as well tell them the truth simply because if you get caught in a lie then you would cause grief for yourself of no good reason. But if you are an excellent liar, then go for what're you want!

Basically the border patrol are looking for three things: terrorist, drugs and people who are coming to work illegally.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#179

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

rbehrends wrote: post #139
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect every border patrol agent to know this?

If the border patrol agents use a person's presumed Jewishness as part of their rationale to deny them entry, they should indeed know what they're talking about. It's not something that they were forced to deal with; it was a reason they manufactured themselves (out of whole cloth, as it so happens). Not being familiar with religious customs is not a crime, but then you shouldn't use your ignorance to adjudicate a ca…

The agent found it odd that someone with a Jewish name would visit those countries. Customs, practices, etc are utterly irrelevant.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#180

Post by leoedin »

fn wrote: post #159
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

> I was born in Canada as it clearly states on my US passport Just wondering why you didn't enter Canada with your Canadian passport then?

A Canadian passport (until very recently) lasts 5 years and costs $120. (a 10 year one is available for $160). Getting a Canadian passport outside of Canada is a nightmare (unless you happen to have a Canadian embassy nearby) and costs even more - $260 for a 10 year passport. Unless you really need 2 passports, there's not much reason to get one.
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