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Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

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Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#171

Post by selimthegrim »

Amadou wrote: post #153
gojomo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still trying to recruit a diverse, capable group of patriotic employees, so that the workforce has the full range of skills and opinions for it to do its proper mission, and identify and correct any abuses. If the armchair-ethicist standard is: "if you have any qualms, you'll quit" – then the type of people doing recruiting, and being recruited, and staying in the agency, all become even more self-selected f…

I think the better result for us is that the more monolithic the thinking is within the NSA the more they are going to over-step in such a way that even their most ardent supporters outside the agency will have to abandon them. I'd like to think the no-fly-zoning of Bolivia's president is an example of that sort of thinking exposing itself for public embarrassment/criticism. Here's hoping they keep digging their own…

Blast from the past (wrt monolithic thinking):

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/11/197...

http://www.parsarts.com/2010/11/29/tehran-wikileaks-1979-cab...

http://wikileaks.org/cable/1979/08/79TEHRAN8980.html

No wonder even Cyrus Vance couldn't save the State Dept. from becoming a giant noodly appendage after Carter.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#172

Post by homosaur »

sliverstorm wrote: post #145
koalakid wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. The student was interested in getting to the point, not listening to NSA duckspeak. She had something to say and said it clearly and boldly. Exactly the opposite of NSA's deception and obfuscation.

So was the student trying to make a point, or get to the point of a question ? Because trying to make a point against a recruiter for a little sound byte on soundcloud is bullshit and contributes nothing, while phrasing your question in a way that maximizes the sense of confrontation or personal assault is an excellent way to ensure you don't get your question answered.

They aren't going to answer questions because they are indoctrinated cowards who work as NSA shills and they would be fired. The best you could hope for here is to kill the bullshit they are spraying and kill any hope of them gaining any benefit from a recruitment seminar. There's benefit solely in not letting these agencies propagandize.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#173

Post by sbank »

nugget wrote: post #25

As Federal employees, the men and women who work at the NSA swear an oath which dates back to 1884: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and fait…

Perhaps they should have to solemnly swear to read it as well.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#175

Post by primitur »

sliverstorm wrote: post #145
koalakid wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. The student was interested in getting to the point, not listening to NSA duckspeak. She had something to say and said it clearly and boldly. Exactly the opposite of NSA's deception and obfuscation.

So was the student trying to make a point, or get to the point of a question ? Because trying to make a point against a recruiter for a little sound byte on soundcloud is bullshit and contributes nothing, while phrasing your question in a way that maximizes the sense of confrontation or personal assault is an excellent way to ensure you don't get your question answered.

The student was trying to reveal the Truth, which is that the NSA leadership are in fact, lying criminals, and she wanted to know if that was a requirement for participation in the NSA as a new recruit.

It is a fact that the NSA leaders are lying criminals who have violated the laws of the land.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#176

Post by PavlovsCat »

infinity0 wrote: post #164
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Omniscience is a commodity now? Please let me know where I can find out all of the information (past, present, and future) about every company I may want to work for -- maybe this database you have access to also has information on what my salary will be a few years from now so I can plan out exactly how many children I want to have. This knowledge base you have access to also lets me know if and when I will lose…

Your points may be valid for the typical company, but recent revelations show that these sort of morally questionable roles are apparently quite widespread even down to rank-and-file level within the NSA. The scale and depth of these roles are also another thing that sets it apart from the typical company job, so making excuses about your children are less passable here. P.S. a tip for PavlovsCat if you're still read…

P.S. a tip for PavlovsCat if you're still reading this thread, quote less. It's an implicit appeal to authority (a fallacy) and it makes you sound like you don't have your own ideas.

Thanks, I know it's meant well, but I disagree that it implies appeal to authority; simply ignore the author name and source and notice how the words stand on their own... anything else is a strawman, not any appeal I am actually making. I'm just a quote geek and like tipping my hat that way, when I remember someone having said what I'm getting at in a beautiful or precise fashion. How that seems doesn't really bother me too much: if someone is open to the point I'm making, they will hardly mind a quote; if they're not, even my nickname might be an excuse, or the time of day.

I just love quotes, I even collect the from perfectly "normal" people including HN. Like finding shells on the beach and going "look! someone said this! :D". I also collected quotes them mostly because they fit to what I was thinking (at the time), instead of, say, adapting what I'm thinking to random stuff random people said throughout history. Things aren't this or that way because Chomsky says so, but rather Chomsky is a genius for some of the things he says, and what ultimately matters are those things.

Having own ideas is nice, but noticing that your own ideas are similar with stuff that's been said a million times before, or is currently being said by others, is also nice. Many, if not most ideas aren't really new anyway, they get rediscovered and rephrased all the time.. what matters is if and how we implement them. I think Goethe said something about that :D

Wanna know my favourite quote?

"I saw a human pyramid once. It was totally unnecessary." -- Mitch Hedberg

You can put that on my tombstone, to date I found no better summary of my experience on Earth.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#177

Post by arh68 »

Kylekramer wrote: post #73
electic wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have to sell your soul to feed your family. Trust me, they can get another job. The reality is the pay is good and these people do not care what their organization does.

You saying "trust me" doesn't feed their family. Looking at my Facebook page, there are dozen of people I personally know desperate for jobs. Even their belief that working for the NSA was selling their soul was taken for granted, most of them would take it.

I stand by the GP. It's really not that hard for federal employees to transfer: what's hard is getting on board. It's largely done online, so your friends can check it out.

https://www.usajobs.gov/

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#179

Post by eli »

mikeash wrote: post #76
eli wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I willingly live in a country that conducts surveillance. I could leave, but I don't. I guess I'm complicit too.

Are you actively supporting those parts of the country that do it? There's a vast gulf between simply living there, and actively recruiting new spies to spy on your own people.

I am literally paying for it with my tax dollars. I honestly do not see a vast gulf between that and working for the NSA as a recruiter. I guess because I don't believe spying is 100% evil?

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#180

Post by PavlovsCat »

mjn wrote: post #141
PavlovsCat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are good at math, but you need to eat. I'm good at cunnilingus, and yet I need to eat, too! What to do, what do do... Do you know the story by Thoreau in "Walden" about the basket weaving indian? Also, while I agree that something like math research is ultimately benefitting all, this doesn't really apply when it's done for spooks, since those tend to sit on it. So if math is all you're good at, and if you pos…

My point was that if there is a structural problem, looking for structural solutions is a better angle than moralizing. If mathematicians are working for the NSA, instead of yelling at mathematicians, I'd want to ask, what is causing mathematicians to work for the NSA, and what would change that? Same reason that, if you think gentrification is problematic, yelling "die yuppie scum!" at the poor schmucks trying to fi…

If you look for causes for what "makes" people do something, how can you not also look at the people themselves?
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