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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

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Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#171

Post by mtoddh »

kevinalexbrown wrote: post #143

I've lived under surveillance before, so I feel my perspective might be somewhat appropriate. I won't comment on the specifics (uninteresting and irrelevant, had to do with where I was living). I won't even make a statement about whether it's justified in my case or in general. I'd just ask everyone here to do one thing: Watch this, then ask yourself how you feel (if it doesn't go directly to 6:40, fastforward to it,…

And my guess is the following video is an example of why the NYT is now saying that Obama no longer has any credibility on this issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6fnfVJzZT4

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#172

Post by anigbrowl »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #158
AJ007 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a democracy functional when a secret and parallel government has access to undisclosed powers which override those of the existing democracy? This isn't just an issue of separation of power between branches of government -- citizens are forced through law to hide the existence of this para-judicial system, as if it is a phantom of our minds.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, a hundred and ten times everyone, yes! It's one thing to do it legally. It's another to do it without approval from Congress. It's another to do it without approval from Congress or the will of the people. Although, between FISA and PATRIOT ACT, it more or less is "legal". Either way, you're on the right track. It's a slippery slope and as far as I'm concerned, PRISM is slippery enough to feel lik…

I'm pretty sure Congress approves of this. You'd be surprised how many laws contain clauses exempting the decisions of agencies from judicial review, for example. A lot of lawmakers dislike the idea of an independent judiciary and consider Article III of the Constitution to be a design flaw.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#173

Post by tlogan »

frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

The problem is when things get "tough" certain individuals will use this for political purposes or some other gain. It is like IRS targeting "tea party" - but much more scarier.

But I grow up in Eastern Europe, so I'm unreasonably concerned and paranoid. It will not happen here because we are so special. /sarcasm.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#174

Post by blantonl »

Dropbox coming soon?

Dropbox better come out ASAP with a formal response to this. But honestly, it might not even matter because if the NSA has targeted Dropbox, any betting man would say that it is already part of the problem.

Ugh...

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#175

Post by EvanKelly »

nitrogen wrote: post #147
frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Information from intelligence programs has already been used in non-terrorism cases, like those of Petraeus and Spitzer.

I don't know about Spitzer (though he was Governor of New York), but someone holding blackmail leverage over Petraeus is certainly a matter of national security concern.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#176

Post by nitrogen »

dsl wrote: post #116
olympus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure when the security people you are talking about did their audit, but when Microsoft bought Skype a few years ago they changed it from P2P communications to routing everything through a central server. After that it would be child's play to put in a backdoor.

Microsoft now runs the supernodes instead of them being random high bandwidth Skype users. Your computer uses a supernode to find the address of the user you want to reach, but you still connect directly to that user to communicate. People misunderstood this change to mean that call traffic traversed Microsoft servers. That said, it has been shown that at the minimum China has keys to decrypt peer to peer communicati…

How does Skype's key exchange work? If the supernode hands out an address for a server that intercepts the call, would the Skype client still accept it and connect?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#177

Post by a3_nm »

nitrogen wrote: post #156
gnaritas wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Facebook sharing their database with the government breaking the constitution?

It may be their database, but it's our lives.

People can put their lives on Facebook's database, it's still Facebook's database. The problem is not that Facebook is sharing this information, it is that people are sharing it with Facebook.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#178

Post by XorNot »

Afforess wrote: post #145
frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

What do you call speed cameras, signs, highway maintenance, driver education, highway patrol policing, periodic public information campaigns and aggressive regulation of safety standards in the automobile industry?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#179

Post by waterlesscloud »

QUFB wrote: post #155
frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

Do you think these ultra-high value targets - the ones with these ex-Soviet nukes or weaponized anthrax stored in their basements - are posting on Facebook, using gmail, or using traceable mobile phones?

They didn't even stop a couple of dumb kids with a pressure cooker.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#180

Post by khuey »

rickhanlonii wrote: post #108
mtgx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but now there is proof, which should make a difference. How are all of these not cases for impeachment? If Fox News thought Obama should be impeached over Benghazi, they should love this.

This point, more than any other, is what gives me the most concern about all of this. This is an epic level news story. This should be hitting the front page and leading every news cycle on all newspapers and news networks. I mean, the story is concrete and the headlines are a century in the making: "Orwell Arrives: U.S. Government Spys on Every American." In fact, with all of the "scandals" right now, there's an eve…

Well this story did break 2 or 3 hours ago ...
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