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JQuery 2.0 Released

blog.jquery.com

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Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#171

Post by Robin_Message »

EnderMB wrote: post #165
coldtea wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what worries me. You only need to spend an hour on HN or Reddit to see that web devs couldn't care less about legacy browsers, even when most businesses need to support them. As I wrote, even if the whole core team insists on going 2.0 only at some point (high unlikely), it's not like it needs any highly technical skills for interested people to jump in and maintain 1.9. > I support the decision to fork jQu…

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you, and I don't think it's really a problem. Hell, if it is it's not a problem to use both libraries, and to serve 1.x to those using older browsers. It's just a shift in the core mentality of what people view jQuery as. Many of us use jQuery because it works, regardless of what browser a user is on. For a lot of others, jQuery IS JavaScript. If they want to do something on their sit…

> This is the classic open-source "fuck you with a smile" response.

Since open source is free and open, it really can't fuck you †. You can however screw yourself by relying on it to do your work for you.

As you say, few people have the skills, time and desire to fix these sorts of problems, and that means you can't rely on open source to fix them for you.

Fortunately, there is a simple solution to this called "money" which companies have and which can be given to a developer with the skills who will magically convert that money into the time and desire to fix the problem.

† If your company is willing to use open source, but only when it is perfect, and not willing to help improve it, maybe they are the doing the fucking?

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#172

Post by vincentkriek »

dmethvin wrote: post #85
gcr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What does "several" mean? Are we talking two years? Five? A decade? Until jQuery changes their minds?

That last one. Given our past record on supporting things you shouldn't be too worried. But if you are, go to our GitHub project and click the Fork button.

Although I am probably just being a stupid person, I really dislike this argument "If you don't like it, fix it yourself".

While it might feel offensive that people are complaining left and right about the new version, it is actually a compliment. I am not trying to be a love-all hippie here, but people are complaining because they really fucking love the solution jQuery put out there to support multiple browsers.

Don't feel offended, feel proud.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#173

Post by wiremine »

JoeCortopassi wrote: post #13

I think what a lot of people are upset about here, is jQuery entered the web development scene as "the library that solved cross-browser compatibility issues". Now while IE 6 is an obvious one to drop, IE 7 is a little tougher, and IE 8 is down right impossible to drop at this time. I understand that jQuery wants to promote a modern framework, but people didn't adopt it for it's fancy features. They adopted it becaus…

If the only issue is IE 6, 7 and 8 marketshare, then the question becomes: how long will IE8 have a sizable portion of the market. Here's a graph of the browser market over the last 3 years (typical disclaimer about lies, damn lies and statistics, and measure your own traffic, etc.)

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version_partially_combine...

Assuming the above graph is relatively close to the truth, IE8 is around 10% of the worldwide marketshare.

So, the question is: when does a library like jQuery drop support? 10% marketshare, 5%, 2%, 1%? At what point is the overhead outweigh the benefits?

Obviously there are some developers who need to support IE7 (for example), regardless of the overall market. I personally don't think that should be the approach for tools like jQuery: time is valuable, and they should target the largest possible market possible.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#174

Post by silasb »

Anyone know if the jQuery 2.0 fixes/enhancements will also be applied to the 1.x branch, particular the 1.9 series. Based on what I've read they are running in parallel with the IE stuff removed. I can't seem to find anything that mentions that 1.x stuff has been updated and released.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#175

Post by democracy »

Silhouette wrote: post #168
angersock wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are macros in IE8? Really? Look, there are two camps: companies that refuse to run modern browsers, and individual users. I posit that we should list the members of the former camp, and that we should educate the members of the latter camp. Changing from IE to Firefox to Chrome shouldn't be a big deal, and if we've only managed to instill idiot monkey-level tools usage in our users we have (as developers and hu…

You keep banging on this drum as if you're going to somehow name and shame big businesses for making perfectly reasonable business decisions. Please understand that a web browser is just a software tool like any other. You don't install a web browser at your business so you can say you use some bleeding edge shiny. You install a web browser to get some useful job done. Much of the time, that involves accessing in-hou…

Could not have said it better, thanks matey!

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#176

Post by theycallmemorty »

colemorrison wrote: post #124

So I find that the majority of people are missing a very LARGE improvement that I value far beyond any of the stated benefits by the jQuery team: -One of the most popular libraries is dropping support for IE 6,7, and 8. Thus, yet another cornerstone of the web is going to push users forward and increase the chance that those miserable browsers will disappear. The most disturbing thing I find is that there are develop…

The main problem I see is that IE9 does not work on windows XP. How long will we continue to see Windows XP machines in the wild?

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#177

Post by democracy »

angersock wrote: post #84
reeses wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go into a local small business with about [$|€|£]2-5m in turnover per year. A moderately successful veterinary practice comes to mind. They have applications that need to be managed by what is undoubtedly an outsourced IT service, very likely related to some other system (practice management, diagnostic hardware, goofy industry-specific file formats, accounting, back-office, etc.). They will stay on XP for ages becau…

I understand the issues with small businesses--believe me. I also understand that in those environments, getting Firefox installed doesn't magically break everything. The purpose of having a list like this is to record the service providers who do have products out there that break using modern browsers--because they're ripe opportunities for "doing it righter and cheaper". Do people not see how hard they are making…

How "modern" technology makes developers cheap?

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#178

Post by democracy »

hobbes78 wrote: post #91
DigitalSea wrote: post #47

This is a welcome change. Considering the market share of IE 6, 7 and 8 is pretty minuscule and Google dropping support for IE8 back in November 2012 should be cause enough to drop it from jQuery too. It's great to hear they'll be supporting the older 1.9 branch for users who need to support older versions of IE as not everyone has the luxury of being able to ditch older versions of IE like that. There's no cause for…

Is 31.37% pretty minuscule? I don't think so... Source: http://www.netmarketshare.com/

At my work (big data analytics for banks) we still have major customers using IE 6. We had to support 5.5 a few years back!

If you think about it, there is no real reason not to support old browsers, unless you are in online gaming, of course.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#179

Post by philbarr »

angersock wrote: post #112
silverbax88 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are thousands of users in major banks and financial institutions which still use IE and have NO plans on moving forward anytime soon. None. I don't mean the users. I mean the companies. You really think the banks that LITERALLY control the world's economy are somehow going to be 'shamed' into upgrading their internet browsers? You might as well try shaming the moon into changing color. I don't mean to sound con…

Which companies? Give us some names--that's why I'm proposing this list. We always, always hear the same threadbare stories about mythical magical enterprise customers that can't/won't upgrade, and the little tail wags the dog, and the life for the rest of us is made harder. All this for a use case which is basically hearsay and rumors. As for inexperienced developers--I'll go and say that the experience I've had of…

The problem is that some of these big companies outsource their IT. They don't want to upgrade from, say, IE6 because they know it's going to cost them a FORTUNE.

I know of at least 2 big blue chip companies with this problem.

In fact, I once had a requirement that the software we write have it's own independant auth mechanism and NOT be linked to Active Directory, "because it costs us thousands every time we ask to add a user or change a role".

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#180

Post by democracy »

colemorrison wrote: post #124

So I find that the majority of people are missing a very LARGE improvement that I value far beyond any of the stated benefits by the jQuery team: -One of the most popular libraries is dropping support for IE 6,7, and 8. Thus, yet another cornerstone of the web is going to push users forward and increase the chance that those miserable browsers will disappear. The most disturbing thing I find is that there are develop…

Not defending, but if you cannot degrade your functionality to make it work in old IE then you doing something wrong. Please, give me a use-case that is not too niche but absolutely requires the latest generation of browsers.
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