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SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

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Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#171

Post by winthrowe »

kd0amg wrote: post #122
betterunix wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember SimCity correctly, saved games are pretty important. One can only get so far without saving...

They are, but leaving the description at "parts of the game logic" could be taken to mean the servers are being used to offload compute-intensive tasks. Centralization for the sake of performance is understandable, but not allowing offline saves sounds more like centralization for the sake of centralization.

I think that the regional city interactions and global market count as 'parts of the logic'. I agree it's not compute intensive, but it is fairly central to the design of the new SimCity. No reason the region couldn't be locally simulated IMO, however.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#173

Post by yareally »

treeface wrote: post #107
ChuckMcM wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is the future, and like you I too don't buy games much any more. Your kids or your peer's kids though will play games this way because it is the only way to get them and they will think its 'normal.' Eventually you'll be called an 'old timer' and derided for all your comments about how in your day when you bought a game it didn't need to download 4GB of 'patches' nor did it require Internet access to run.…

There are countless games coming out that don't use draconian DRM. "The future of gaming" is a lot less monolithic than the two of you would suggest.

Yep. I think this is the future of gaming according to EA and a few of the other traditional AAA studios. Not every Publisher is this hostile to users or treats them the way EA or Ubisoft does. Publishers such as Valve, Square Enix, 2k Games have been friendly and respectful to PC gamers for the most part in recent years by using only Steam DRM and avoiding too much "consolitis[1]" in PC games (some of 2k games titles are iffy, but overall they have more hits than misses).

Then we have all the really great indie games coming out, like the successor to Dungeon Keeper Series[2] that looks good enough to be AAA (though no where near the price range), but is crowd funded. We also have a great alternative to Blizzard's Diablo with Torchlight. Some studios will go the way of EA and others I think will be the opposing side. Who will win though I think is up for debate, but I prefer to be optimistic.

[1] http://www.firingsquad.com/games/Firing_Points_Consolitis/

[2] https://wftogame.com/

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#174

Post by yareally »

drobati wrote: post #95
danielweber wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but piracy seems to be our only guaranteed method of preserving them You aren't going to pirate Sim City 5. This is the future of gaming. Companies are just going to avoid all the grief of piracy and weird DRM by either moving to locked-down platforms (iOS and consoles) or into games that have essential online components. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. I'd love to by a game and install it on my PC without it taki…

This is not the future of gaming. Look at how badly SimCity flopped. Let me compare to DotA2 which I play a lot. It's exclusively multiplayer and thus needs an internet connection, yet it's free to play. How much have I spent on it? At this point at least $75+ dollars. THIS IS THE FUTURE OF GAMING. Valve has the right model. I know valve didn't create the F2P model but it has implemented it the best as far as I know.…

Valve's free to play is done well, because they don't force you to purchase items in the game in order to compete or find the game fun. They're aesthetic items that let one customize their characters, instead of crippling gameplay.

If others followed this model, free to play would not be given anywhere close to the bad name it typically conveys.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#175

Post by yareally »

BystanderX wrote: post #140
drobati wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the future of gaming. Look at how badly SimCity flopped. Let me compare to DotA2 which I play a lot. It's exclusively multiplayer and thus needs an internet connection, yet it's free to play. How much have I spent on it? At this point at least $75+ dollars. THIS IS THE FUTURE OF GAMING. Valve has the right model. I know valve didn't create the F2P model but it has implemented it the best as far as I know.…

And you know what's exemplary about DotA 2? All that money you spent isn't even short-cutting grind, it's /only/ on cosmetics. I can't find a better example of F2P models out there, even my beloved Planetside 2 has some pretty big issues with how its model applies to gameplay.

Team Fortress 2, but that's another Valve game, so it doesn't exactly count :)

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#176

Post by yareally »

winthrowe wrote: post #169
andylei wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now doesn't Steam also have DRM?

Steam requires authentication with their servers, and that authentication is cache-able for offline access, for a period up to a month before requiring reauthentication. It is DRM, but I don't find it to be onerous. Individual publishers may add additional DRM measures, at their option. Those can sometimes be painful, but are clearly stated on the steam store page for each piece of software.

Additional DRM measures are usually stated, but sometimes things are omitted or notifications not removed when the additional DRM gets removed. I've bought a few games before that said they still had the DRM, but they no longer did (things like secure rom, games for windows live, etc).

I'm always paranoid and check both the Big Steam DRM List[1] and also the Steam Forums to make sure there isn't any additional DRM not listed. Especially since refunds are hard to deal with on Steam.

[1] http://steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?page=DRM_Lists/T...

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#177

Post by yareally »

b3b0p wrote: post #49

If they had called this Sim City Online and marketed as not the next Sim City, but more of an MMO like Ever Quest, Guild Wars, and Star Wars Galaxies would be people be complaining as much if they knew they had to be online to play it. Sim City 4, 2000, and the original still run perfect and are extremely fun to play. Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now. I'm tempted to pick that up since I hav…

I grabbed it on Steam last year after losing my hard copy some years ago. If one waits for a big Steam sale or adds Sim City 4 to their wish list, they get notified when it goes on sale and the typical price is 4.99 with all the addons as well. Lots of community mods out there for the game for anyone interested that fix some bugs like traffic issues.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#179

Post by xentronium »

drobati wrote: post #95
danielweber wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but piracy seems to be our only guaranteed method of preserving them You aren't going to pirate Sim City 5. This is the future of gaming. Companies are just going to avoid all the grief of piracy and weird DRM by either moving to locked-down platforms (iOS and consoles) or into games that have essential online components. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. I'd love to by a game and install it on my PC without it taki…

This is not the future of gaming. Look at how badly SimCity flopped. Let me compare to DotA2 which I play a lot. It's exclusively multiplayer and thus needs an internet connection, yet it's free to play. How much have I spent on it? At this point at least $75+ dollars. THIS IS THE FUTURE OF GAMING. Valve has the right model. I know valve didn't create the F2P model but it has implemented it the best as far as I know.…

DotA 2 isn't out and we don't even know their financials, do we?

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#180

Post by pms »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #89
npsimons wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the future of gaming. Then I guess I won't be gaming anymore. Not that I do much now, and I've mostly quit for other unrelated reasons, but if is the future of gaming, you can count me, and I'm sure many others, out. I used to game a lot. I used to spend a not insignificant amount of money on games. If the publishers want to basically steal my money and call me the thief, then they can forget about having me…

Actually it is the future, and like you I too don't buy games much any more. Your kids or your peer's kids though will play games this way because it is the only way to get them and they will think its 'normal.' Eventually you'll be called an 'old timer' and derided for all your comments about how in your day when you bought a game it didn't need to download 4GB of 'patches' nor did it require Internet access to run.…

I'm not sure if this is the future. Perhaps for the masses, to some point, as you write. However, I already find myself uninterested in any large productions, cause in the end they are indeed all the same... I gamed a lot in the past. Nowadays, I am buying Humble Indie Bundles, and I am truly excited about Kickstarter funded games. It seems to me, that the real creativity is transitioning to there.
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