Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't want to take sides either way, because it's obvious that Broder's and Musk's interests are diametrically opposed and so both viewpoints need to be taken with a huge grain of salt. However, after reading this article it's clear to me that the data shows Broder flat-out lied about several things (like turning down the heat or setting cruise control to 54 MPH). He also clearly did not just use one of myriad cha…
Both of those assertions are semi-true, at least - It looks like he averaged around 54mph between 400 and 460 miles. He also turned down the heat as claimed, but not when he stated - roughly between 250 and 300 miles. I'm willing to chalk that up to poor note-taking.
Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
171–180 of 262 posts
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
The New York Times is not some Murdoch trashy paper that deals with gossip and controversy. The integrity of their work is important because that is what is keeping the paper alive whilst the others are falling by the way side. Maybe you should actually try reading it sometime.
Pace your sense of the NY Times motivations, I offer Judy Miller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_ca...
My point was that they aren't the type of paper who writes flamebait articles just to get more online hits.
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read all the arguments on both sides, and while both have made good points, there is one that stands out. This reporter clearly barely made any attempt at recharging his empty vehicle in Norwich, and then attempted a drive well beyond the car's capabilities, then made the "running out of fuel" his headline. If he would have done this on gasoline, the result would have been the same, and I think that is getting l…
Did you (or 99% of HN) read the NYT article? "When I parked the car, its computer said I had 90 miles of range, twice the 46 miles back to Milford. It was a different story at 8:30 the next morning. The thermometer read 10 degrees and the display showed 25 miles of remaining range" "I called Tesla in California, and the official I woke up said I needed to “condition” the battery pack to restore the lost energy." Look…
However, "Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway" somehow tells a story where blame is a lot more fuzzy.
Broder told a complicated story and put a poetically negative spin on it. It is entirely understandable that Musk would want to simplify this down to negative claims he could refute. This might seem unfair but I don't think it is because the New York Time reader isn't going say "well, either the driver, the Tesla employee or the car made some mistakes or just couldn't understand each other, what does this prove?", a reader in these days of simplification will just get "Tesla doesn't work in the cold" and so Musk is correct to refute this arguably false claim.
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#174Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#175Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Earlier in the article, Broder claims that Tesla blamed the mileage inaccuracies on a computer glitch, and that some battery reconditioning would restore the range lost overnight. So it's not impossible that either he, or Tesla, (or both) believed the mileage readout to be inaccurately low, caused by a bug triggered by low temperature readings. I think the author implies that this was the situation, but it is indeed…
That all comes down to what Broder claims someone told him on a phone call. Except he doesn't quote them verbatim and never provides the name(s) of the people he was talking to. Given all that they had at stake, namely a disastrous NY Times review, how likely is it that Tesla would knowingly say "Oh, your reading says 30 miles, but you have more than twice that still to travel? Meh, it's probably just a computer glit…
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read all the arguments on both sides, and while both have made good points, there is one that stands out. This reporter clearly barely made any attempt at recharging his empty vehicle in Norwich, and then attempted a drive well beyond the car's capabilities, then made the "running out of fuel" his headline. If he would have done this on gasoline, the result would have been the same, and I think that is getting l…
Did you (or 99% of HN) read the NYT article? "When I parked the car, its computer said I had 90 miles of range, twice the 46 miles back to Milford. It was a different story at 8:30 the next morning. The thermometer read 10 degrees and the display showed 25 miles of remaining range" "I called Tesla in California, and the official I woke up said I needed to “condition” the battery pack to restore the lost energy." Look…
"When I parked the car for the night at a hotel, the range meter showed 90 miles remaining, and I was about 45 miles from the Milford Supercharger. As I recounted in the article, when I awoke the next morning the indicated range was 25 miles. The rest of that story is told in the article, including a Tesla official’s counsel, which I followed, that an hour of charging at the Norwich, Conn., utility would restore much of the range lost overnight, which had disappeared because of what he called a “software glitch.”"
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is it really a replicable test? Yes. > They'd need the same weather patterns, traffic conditions Okay. > and the same car Find an honest 3rd party who already owns the same model. > not a different, "equivalently equipped" model. Now you're just being obtuse. Consumer Reports gets to test a car that's the same model. They're not required to come to your house and test your car ! > In the documentary Revenge of the…
>> Sorry, but this is a huge stretch. Why? Even individual cars produced in assembly lines can have problems. When I worked at Toyota, there was a problem with a Lexus model that was so hard to isolate. Eventually, after a long data collection period, they found that the problem was only existent in cars painted in a certain color.
So? If there's some conflicting results, we can then turn around and test the same car as well. If there's a problem, those are measurable.
> When I worked at Toyota, there was a problem with a Lexus model that was so hard to isolate. Eventually, after a long data collection period, they found that the problem was only existent in cars painted in a certain color.
Color and whatever other factors were measurable. Empiricism is possible. Your example supports my point.
Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery
#179Musk's job is to sell his cars, we accept that he might present things in a manner that is most flattering to his products. That's ok as long as he doesn't outright lie or mislead, we wouldn't expect anything else from any other company. But the reporter's job is to present the truth to his readers, and if he not only fails at that job but goes out of the way to present falsehoods what faith can his readers have in him? At this point, what makes him better than a reporter for a tabloid? Why should anyone believe anything he writes? If a reporter doesn't have a reputation for factual accuracy what good are they?
P.S. I'm reminded of Dateline NBC's "investigation" of the GM C/K series pickup trucks. The trucks were fundamentally of an unsafe design, with side mounted external gas tanks. But Dateline's crash tests included adding model rocket engines to ensure that the rupture of the gas tank caused an explosion, without revealing that to the viewers. And that, I think, is the problem here where the reporter was not content to let the facts stand on their own and went to every effort to juice up the story (although not the car). Investigative journalism is a hard job, but when you make that leap and start adding embelishments you are no longer doing journalism you are entertaining.