Untitled topic

Post by raldi » Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 4:04 PM UTC

sociotech wrote: post #122

Google: site: http://www.justice.gov "if convicted, * faces" 57,700 results. There are many things to criticize about the universe, but the standard form language on US Attorneys' press releases is probably not the biggest thing we should be worried about. Linus, as he often does, is speaking too confidently and too hastily. And the press releases always state the statutory maximum, which as I and many others have ex…

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Post by shail » Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 4:10 PM UTC

mpyne wrote: post #146

shail wrote: post #120

I really do not understand why people are trying to look at smaller issues such as who is right or wrong, whether she went back or not, whether its normal to follow such practices to extort plea etc. I do not think (correct me if I am wrong) the laws ever say that lawyers have the permission to extort pleas even though that's what is going on everywhere. And if as an appointed office holder and given such responsibil…

The alternative to plea bargaining is generally that everyone convicted gets sentences in line with the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. No one ever seems to believe this but the intention is for there to be a better result for both sides. I'll admit that dropping the option of plea bargains would less to lower conviction rates (though this is not necessarily a good thing, depending on your mindset). However should Aar…

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 4:11 PM UTC

podperson wrote: post #163

edanm wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be two camps on HN, on this issue and on the case in general. One camp says: "The total penalty possible was 35 years. In general this scared Aaron Swartz. In specific Carmen Ortiz now saying that they weren't pursuing this penalty is a lie, since it was always a possibility." The other camp says: "Forget the total that was theoretically possible. Every knowledgable person to talk about this case has sa…

Nice synopsis although I suspect faction A will claim you're misrepresenting them. My take on it is that the prosecution did what prosecutors do. Jason Swartz seems to me to have been somewhat bipolar, and in manic phases he was brilliant, enthusiastic, idealistic, and a bit nuts -- which is what got him in trouble. In his depressive phase he killed himself. Blaming the prosecutors for his decisions is a tad harsh. T…

Post by glurgh » Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #5

Osiris wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the average cost of defending one of these is $1.5 million, which is money Aaron did not have and could not raise. I thought that justice system was required to provide an attorney in the case that a defendant didn't have the means by which to procure their own representation? Is your comment only to suggest that a public defender wouldn't be capable of properly defending Aaron and thus he would need to pay for h…

I pulled the $1.5 million figure from http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2013/01/12/aaron-swartz/ . The justice system is required to provide an attorney if you can't get your own. However if you look at http://www.innocenceproject.org/ you'll find that incompetent representation is one of the major causes of innocent people losing these cases. Furthermore in Aaron's case he's being charged under a fairly specialized…

Post by danielweber » Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 4:21 PM UTC

detst wrote: post #159

tveita wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I expect that any criminal defendant, including Aaron, would read her initial statement as "they're going to put me in prison for 35 years". Absolutely not. I've been shocked to see how many geeks - including Linus, do not seem to understand the concept of maximum penalties. This is not an obscure lawyer technicality, this something you see in the papers every day. Journalists like to quote the "up to" numbers beca…

> I've been shocked to see how many geeks - including Linus, do not seem to understand the concept of maximum penalties. And I'm shocked to see how many people misinterpret those geeks. We don't believe he was absolutely going to end up in jail for 35 years; we believe it was hung over his head to extort a plea deal, while remaining a real possibility. > Journalists like to quote the "up to" numbers because they soun…