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Will there be a 7G?

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Re: Will there be a 7G?

#171

Post by herbst »

_ink_ wrote: post #68
ksec wrote: post #49

It needs to work backwards, much like Video Codec and ask what do the stakeholders really want or need? We are closing in to rolling out the last / final phase of 5G. And yet none of the Massive MIMO on FDD is happening. We are still stuck on 32T32R, hardly that impressive considering we have that in LTE already. Not to mention the insane complexity increase from 4G to 5G. And judging from the previews of 6G that see…

In Germany I notice a massive difference in 4G and 5G. If I see 4G on my phone and know I can put it away again if it's not some kind of an emergency because it's basically unusable. I am not sure what is going on here, probably the telcos that are limiting the bandwidth.

> If I see anyG on my phone anywhere that isn't a city in Germany and know I can put it away again if it's not some kind of an emergency because it's basically unusable

Ftfy

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#172

Post by sandworm101 »

jayd16 wrote: post #72
ksec wrote: post #49

It needs to work backwards, much like Video Codec and ask what do the stakeholders really want or need? We are closing in to rolling out the last / final phase of 5G. And yet none of the Massive MIMO on FDD is happening. We are still stuck on 32T32R, hardly that impressive considering we have that in LTE already. Not to mention the insane complexity increase from 4G to 5G. And judging from the previews of 6G that see…

Something I've noticed is that a phone is actually usable at a stadium or concert when 3g or 4g felt essentially useless at that density.

That is a very effective use case, but until we live in hive cities, stadium-level device densities are an edge case. Developing a new generation to service the 0.01% of time phones spend inside stadiums seems inefficient.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#173

Post by mytailorisrich »

lxgr wrote: post #135
mytailorisrich wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. 2G->3G->4G->5G refer to real changes in technology and system architecture, as detailed in the Wikipedia page you linked to. 3GPP releases are more fine-grained than that. E.g. rel. 99 introduced 3G/WCDMA, rel. 8 introduced 4G/LTE, etc. Other releases only add features. In the industry Gs are used all the time to refer to the technology/architecture, then releases are used to refer to specific features,…

Increasingly less so. 2G to 3G was a very clear cut on the radio side (TDMA to CDMA); 4G changed both the radio side (OFDMA) and the core (no more circuit switching, more Internet-standards-like). 5G is already much less clear: 5G non-SA literally depends on 4G for signaling and uses 5G-NR (which itself is still OFDMA) only for user data. 5G SA changes the core network again, but isn’t even supported in many networks…

5G is a big change from 4G including on the radio side (although overall the physical layer is indeed quite sinilar). The thing is that many new 5G features have not gained tractions in the marketplace, or are happening very slowly because of absence of commercial use cases or clear benefits to customers.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#174

Post by Melatonic »

Zigurd wrote: post #61
ksec wrote: post #49

It needs to work backwards, much like Video Codec and ask what do the stakeholders really want or need? We are closing in to rolling out the last / final phase of 5G. And yet none of the Massive MIMO on FDD is happening. We are still stuck on 32T32R, hardly that impressive considering we have that in LTE already. Not to mention the insane complexity increase from 4G to 5G. And judging from the previews of 6G that see…

Most of what passes for 5G in the US is the same old but full duplex with wider channels. Calling that 5G obscures the fact that millimeter wave 5G standalone is a totally different beast, and a huge network engineering challenge. It may seem bureaucratic to regulate what people can call 5G, but US consumers get ripped off thinking they're on an advanced network when in fact you could call it the long-term evolution…

Isn't mm5g basically similar to microwave point to point ?

Had no idea about full duplex though - that's huge

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#175

Post by porridgeraisin »

majormajor wrote: post #123
eightysixfour wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5G standard is a bit of a mess. In the US we heavily rolled out 5G NSA, which means you still have a 4G network core with both 4G and 5G radios at the edge. You get a chunk of the performance benefits without having to replace the network core first. This usually has similar (in practice) performance characteristics to LTE Advanced. 5G SA is an actual, end to end 5G network. The two biggest wins here for an end u…

Hah, I was aware of 5G vs 5G mm-wave, didn't realize there was another way in which most 5G was "kinda fake" too.

26ghz mm wave was a bungle as well. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49675724

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#176

Post by wffurr »

ksec wrote: post #49

It needs to work backwards, much like Video Codec and ask what do the stakeholders really want or need? We are closing in to rolling out the last / final phase of 5G. And yet none of the Massive MIMO on FDD is happening. We are still stuck on 32T32R, hardly that impressive considering we have that in LTE already. Not to mention the insane complexity increase from 4G to 5G. And judging from the previews of 6G that see…

That seems to be exactly what the post is doing?

I guess there aren't enough network engineers or RF experts here to have a real conversation about it though. All the comments are just anecdotal discussions of phone bars and reception.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#177

Post by GuB-42 »

Atotalnoob wrote: post #92
LeoPanthera wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AT&T has figured out a way to monetize that. If you have a "Turbo" plan or add-on, your phone will work in crowded cells. If you don't, good luck with that.

Net neutrality would have prevented this kind of pay to win

Net neutrality means that providers don't discriminate based on the kind of traffic, that you get internet access, not just access to particular services.

They can absolutely meter and limit your connection as long as one byte is one byte, no matter its origin. They can also discriminate based on the technology they provide (4G, 5G, fiber...). Net neutrality is not about preventing "pay to win", obviously, you can get a better connection if you pay more. It is about fair competition between online services.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#178

Post by fedpost »

The headline is somewhat detached from the article BUT

Of course there will fucking be a 7G. Capitalism doesn't just demand it, capitalism literally needs it to continue working.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#179

Post by wingworks »

askvictor wrote: post #111
_ink_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany I notice a massive difference in 4G and 5G. If I see 4G on my phone and know I can put it away again if it's not some kind of an emergency because it's basically unusable. I am not sure what is going on here, probably the telcos that are limiting the bandwidth.

Interesting; in Australia I'm using exclusively 4G with no problems

Same in NZ. I don't need the extra speed of 5G if it's even available and would rather have the extra battery life.

Re: Will there be a 7G?

#180

Post by wingworks »

inkyoto wrote: post #147
abroszka33 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2G is hard to shut down, because it just works, and many of the core services and old phones rely on it. It will survive 5G, 6G, 7G an other Gs.

Australia (2018), New Zealand (2018), US (2017), Iceland (2025), Switzerland have shut down 2G networks. In Norway, Telia shut down 2G in 2025, but Telenor is holding out until the end of 2027. In Sweden, Telia is holding until 2027, and all other telcos have already switched it off. France is shutting down 2G this year. So the 2G shutdown is a real thing.

At least in NZ around when they closed 2G the govt created a group of some kind which went around and put up a bunch of 4G towers in more remote areas, the key thing was the towers went owned on xyz company, so everyone who visits the area regardless of the telco they use get the same great signal. *having said that, it's still sad 2G was closed, it had truly impressive coverage, with few cell towered required.

Is how it should be country wide in my opinion. Way too many towers up everywhere just so xyz company can get coverage there. Leaving no 1 company to have the "best" coverage.

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