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U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

genesisopenmodels.anl.gov

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Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#171

Post by anon373839 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #115
anon373839 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite understand what the argument is. Government does as a matter of fact operate on the frontier of new technology. (It’s how we got the web.) Why shouldn’t it, exactly? Also, the US has been involved in AI research since the 1940s. So it’s not exactly a new thing.

The argument is that there is a difference between fundamental research and trying to ship finished products and satisfy commercial demand. The government was involved in basic internet research. It didnt try to operate pets.com

LLMs aren't finished products, though. And since they are basically a distillation of the collective works of all of humanity, it would make a lot of sense for them to wind up as public goods rather than some special advantage held by a select few.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#172

Post by stevesimmons »

CMay wrote: post #154
soulofmischief wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to tell if you are for or against access to open weight models as a general rule, so I am curious to hear your opinion on this. Personally, I think we will one day come to see access to open weight models as an inalienable right to defense against tyranny, the way the second amendment is framed today. Just as encryption has become, which we similarly had to fight for in the 90s. I also understand that…

Since you asked my opinion, I will say that it is nuanced and have thought a lot about these topics. People need to have the power to influence their government and the government largely needs to operate in the interest of the people. It doesn't have to do what the people want, but I think governance needs to understand what the people want and interpret how best to address it. Kind of like how developers think of w…

> The right to bear arms is critical... The governmental structure of the US is so good...

Not sure many outside the US would agree with these statements.

> People should own a gun for self defense and a car to get where they need to go.

Nor these.

Never felt the need to own a gun. I don't know anyone who does. Haven't owned a car for 17 years. I get along fine.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#173

Post by acdha »

CMay wrote: post #154
soulofmischief wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to tell if you are for or against access to open weight models as a general rule, so I am curious to hear your opinion on this. Personally, I think we will one day come to see access to open weight models as an inalienable right to defense against tyranny, the way the second amendment is framed today. Just as encryption has become, which we similarly had to fight for in the 90s. I also understand that…

Since you asked my opinion, I will say that it is nuanced and have thought a lot about these topics. People need to have the power to influence their government and the government largely needs to operate in the interest of the people. It doesn't have to do what the people want, but I think governance needs to understand what the people want and interpret how best to address it. Kind of like how developers think of w…

> The right to bear arms is critical. That is a form of power and self defense which can save your life, your neighbors life, or millions of lives from some kind of tyranny. The governmental structure of the US is so good, there is no comparison anywhere else in the world and we're not even remotely close to some sort of totalitarianism like China has.

This is an interesting statement at a time where we’re seeing unprecedented levels of lawlessness by the U.S. government (breaking contracts, depriving citizens of their liberty or lives under false pretenses, etc.) and not only is the right to bear arms not doing anything to stop it, exercising that right has been used to justify killing armed citizens.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#174

Post by frumiousirc »

nxobject wrote: post #170

If you’re in the weird position of knowing more about the national labs than the AI lab scene (like I am), link to a TechCrunch profile: https://techcrunch.com/2026/01/28/tiny-startup-arcee-ai-buil... My question is: why is this being run out of Argonne? Why not NERSC proper?

Your question piqued my curiosity.

I thought maybe NERSC doesn't accept jobs from private corporations but I checked and that's not true, as long as results are not held proprietary.

Perhaps ANL was used as they have a lot of compute and they lead and host the Genesis Open Models Initiative?

From your link, 2048 B300 GPUs were used for 6 months. If google search is right, NERSC has 7168 A100. B300's are way more capable than A100. To do this training in 6 months, "3 NERSCs" would be needed.

Between the political angle and the technical, I'd guess these two make up a big chunk of the answer.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#175

Post by ethbr1 »

somenameforme wrote: post #169
TFNA wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. I think with modern tech China has built a surveillance panopticon that will continue to ensure social harmony through any economic downturn, and this is precisely the model that is appealing to so many other countries now.

Mass surveillance is nothing new. The USSR had an absurdly wide surveillance net paired with endless on-the-ground informants making people terrified to speak pretty much anywhere, yet as soon as things started slowing down the entire system collapsed with a shocking rapidity, because these things don't create social harmony, they create a dystopic nightmare that people want to overthrow. However, people are willing…

> yet as soon as things started slowing down the entire system collapsed with a shocking rapidity, because these things don't create social harmony, they create a dystopic nightmare that people want to overthrow.

Different read: command economies collapse because they invariably have higher levels of corruption and inefficiency.

Both of those are tolerable during boom times of economic growth, and China has kicked the can down the road by pursuing intermittent corruption purges.

Ultimately though, when things start to slow down, the system attempts to conceal the slowdown, which causes even more economic dysfunction, which eventually paralyzes the whole system and leads to collapse.

Making a command economy work sustainably means solving the "People lie to avoid consequences of bad news" problem.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#176

Post by CMay »

acdha wrote: post #173
CMay wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you asked my opinion, I will say that it is nuanced and have thought a lot about these topics. People need to have the power to influence their government and the government largely needs to operate in the interest of the people. It doesn't have to do what the people want, but I think governance needs to understand what the people want and interpret how best to address it. Kind of like how developers think of w…

> The right to bear arms is critical. That is a form of power and self defense which can save your life, your neighbors life, or millions of lives from some kind of tyranny. The governmental structure of the US is so good, there is no comparison anywhere else in the world and we're not even remotely close to some sort of totalitarianism like China has. This is an interesting statement at a time where we’re seeing unp…

The US is under attack, so the amount of anti-US propaganda is at an extreme. The lies told about the US government or what it's doing or why it's doing it are extreme.

The US is applying unitary executive theory to bypass gridlock in congress while still trying to operate within the law. They are surrounded by lawyers and thinktanks to work through this, which is far from lawless. The reason we're doing this is to deter China and push back against what they're doing in the world.

We're in a moment very much like the moment before World War 2. It's not the same, but it's similar enough that action is warranted.

As for guns, generally if someone is shot while having a gun it's because of all the other things they did that led up to that moment.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#177

Post by CMay »

stevesimmons wrote: post #172
CMay wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you asked my opinion, I will say that it is nuanced and have thought a lot about these topics. People need to have the power to influence their government and the government largely needs to operate in the interest of the people. It doesn't have to do what the people want, but I think governance needs to understand what the people want and interpret how best to address it. Kind of like how developers think of w…

> The right to bear arms is critical... The governmental structure of the US is so good... Not sure many outside the US would agree with these statements. > People should own a gun for self defense and a car to get where they need to go. Nor these. Never felt the need to own a gun. I don't know anyone who does. Haven't owned a car for 17 years. I get along fine.

The number of people that agree with something does not inherently make it good or true. History has proven that.

Many people don't own guns, partially because violent crime in general has declined significantly over the past 200 years. The justifications for ownership still exist, though.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#178

Post by s1artibartfast »

anon373839 wrote: post #171
s1artibartfast wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that there is a difference between fundamental research and trying to ship finished products and satisfy commercial demand. The government was involved in basic internet research. It didnt try to operate pets.com

LLMs aren't finished products, though. And since they are basically a distillation of the collective works of all of humanity, it would make a lot of sense for them to wind up as public goods rather than some special advantage held by a select few.

Im not arguing that would be a bad spot eventually, like water or electricity distribution. Right now it's a highly Dynamic field though and changing On a monthly basis. I don't think it makes sense for the US government to try to Duke it out and drive all of the competitors out of business.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#179

Post by acdha »

CMay wrote: post #176
acdha wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right to bear arms is critical. That is a form of power and self defense which can save your life, your neighbors life, or millions of lives from some kind of tyranny. The governmental structure of the US is so good, there is no comparison anywhere else in the world and we're not even remotely close to some sort of totalitarianism like China has. This is an interesting statement at a time where we’re seeing unp…

The US is under attack, so the amount of anti-US propaganda is at an extreme. The lies told about the US government or what it's doing or why it's doing it are extreme. The US is applying unitary executive theory to bypass gridlock in congress while still trying to operate within the law. They are surrounded by lawyers and thinktanks to work through this, which is far from lawless. The reason we're doing this is to d…

> They are surrounded by lawyers and thinktanks to work through this, which is far from lawless

This is so naive I struggle to believe you can possibly believe it. For example, there is a legal requirement that Congress authorize military action longer than 60 days. They’re advancing a theory that this is unnecessary or magically resets a timer anytime a cease fire is declared but that doesn’t make it lawful, any more than those guys saying they can only be tried in admiralty courts are lawful just because they don’t want to stop what they’re doing.

> The reason we're doing this is to deter China and push back against what they're doing in the world.

We’re deterring China by losing to a much weaker opponent while simultaneously giving China a huge economic and political advantage? Giving Iran the ability to tax shipping for the first time and doing it in Chinese yuan is a deterrent in the same sense that you deter a dog by feeding it sausages.

> As for guns, generally if someone is shot while having a gun it's because of all the other things they did that led up to that moment.

I can see why you prefer to believe this but it sure is striking to see that politically-incorrect gun owners have their guns used to justify killing them while politically-correct ones are seen as having a right to carry theirs even when actively making illegal threats. There’s definitely a principle on display here but it’s not the one you think.

Re: U.S. Department of Energy Launches the Genesis Open Models Initiative

#180

Post by intrasight »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #156
embedding-shape wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't yet have US regulations Is it not illegal to "hack others" and "defeat protection/defensive systems" in the US already, including for both individuals and companies? Regardless if it was "by accident" or not?

Do you think the current (or future) US governments will apply the DMCA to these trillion dollar companies with the same gusto that they use it to, for example, push Aaron Schwartz into killing himself, or threatening teenagers with lifelong federal prison sentences?

I think they will put in place the equivalent of the FCC. It may not happen until after something really bad happens - but it will happen, and them all LLMs that aren't air-gapped will need to be independently tested.
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