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Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

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Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#171

Post by criddell »

garbageman wrote: post #152
criddell wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made steak probably 100 times in the past decade (sometimes with a sous vide) and I don't think I've ever made one I would say is great. Certainly not as good as what I can get at a good restaurant. I think what my home steaks are really missing is the crust from salamander broiler. I don't have anything at home that can exceed 1000 F / 550 C.

Salamander broiler would be incredible to have at home. We get decent results from using a cast iron pan thats as hot as we can get it. At most we can sear 2 steaks as it tends to cool off pretty quick even under high heat. Got any better alternatives that a home cook could use?

A blow torch might be worth trying. I'd think it's still not as good as a hot broiler because it's heating a relatively small area.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#172

Post by lmm »

Xirdus wrote: post #17
xtajv wrote: post #12

I do not appreciate when authors use the royal "we" to speak for all software engineers when admitting to low quality-control standards. I suspect that it is an attempt to broach an uncomfortable topic through vulnerable self-disclosure, but we need to be serious about admitting when there is a problem somewhere. "Bugs" are not any more cute or fuzzy or entertaining or harmless than the engine "gremlins" that haunted…

I just want to point out this is not a royal "we". It's a regular "we". Royal "we" is when you say "we" but mean a singular person, yourself. Here, the author does actually mean multiple people beyond themselves - like you pointed out, they claim to speak for all software engineers.

No, that is exactly GP's complaint. Their whole point is that OP has written things like "we throw everything at a model and hope it gives us what we imagined, without ever having to understand how any of it actually works" when the honest statement would be "I throw everything at a model and hope it gives me what I imagined, without ever having to understand how any of it actually works".

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#173

Post by nunez »

cogman10 wrote: post #154
jaggederest wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coffee is a good metaphor here too, because bad technique can ruin a good steak just as surely as good coffee. "knows how to use a meat thermometer and reverse sear" describes like 10% of the population or less, same with coffee - there are people who use a bad grinder and a not-regularly-cleaned Mr. Coffee with good beans and get gas station coffee, and there are people out there making solidly B+ class coffee using…

Perhaps I'm crazy, but I truly can't taste much of a difference between "good" coffee and "bad" coffee. I can certainly tell the difference between a good steak and a bad one.

You'll start to taste the difference once you get that one really-well-made pourover at a place that _lives_ for the love of coffee.

There are some coffee beans that have crazy taste profiles when properly extracted with the right water. I had one that tastes literally like a peach and another that tasted like a really nice tea.

Or maybe not. Different strokes!

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#174

Post by yulker »

criddell wrote: post #129
wheels wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I'm an avid cook. Sous vide circulators are cheap now, and so are meat thermometers. Doing a steak well is one of the easiest cooking tasks, to the extent that I won't bother paying top dollar in a restaurant because it's so easy to do restaurant quality at home. I could teach someone to cook a restaurant quality steak in a couple hours and a few practice runs.

I've made steak probably 100 times in the past decade (sometimes with a sous vide) and I don't think I've ever made one I would say is great. Certainly not as good as what I can get at a good restaurant. I think what my home steaks are really missing is the crust from salamander broiler. I don't have anything at home that can exceed 1000 F / 550 C.

couldn't you trivially get a kitchen torch or use your oven's broiler

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#175

Post by addaon »

garbageman wrote: post #152
criddell wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made steak probably 100 times in the past decade (sometimes with a sous vide) and I don't think I've ever made one I would say is great. Certainly not as good as what I can get at a good restaurant. I think what my home steaks are really missing is the crust from salamander broiler. I don't have anything at home that can exceed 1000 F / 550 C.

Salamander broiler would be incredible to have at home. We get decent results from using a cast iron pan thats as hot as we can get it. At most we can sear 2 steaks as it tends to cool off pretty quick even under high heat. Got any better alternatives that a home cook could use?

Reverse sear over sous vide -- moisture is the enemy of crust.

Cheap knock off a Big Green Egg with hardwood charcoal can get to 650°F or so pretty quick, and does an amazing job of finishing up after a reverse sear.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#176

Post by 9dev »

cogman10 wrote: post #154
jaggederest wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coffee is a good metaphor here too, because bad technique can ruin a good steak just as surely as good coffee. "knows how to use a meat thermometer and reverse sear" describes like 10% of the population or less, same with coffee - there are people who use a bad grinder and a not-regularly-cleaned Mr. Coffee with good beans and get gas station coffee, and there are people out there making solidly B+ class coffee using…

Perhaps I'm crazy, but I truly can't taste much of a difference between "good" coffee and "bad" coffee. I can certainly tell the difference between a good steak and a bad one.

It’s about experience. If you’re not into classical music, or jazz, or metal, it all sounds the same - how could anybody tell the difference? Only when you put in the work to listen to it a lot, different works, and actually pay attention, you will notice how your sense and understanding develops over time. Suddenly you’re able to make out differences, recognise patterns and repeated segments and structure where before there was none.

Or pick dancing: when you start out, you’re entirely occupied with placing your feet in the right spots at the right time. As you practice, your mind gets freed up and you’re able to make deliberate alterations, embellishments, larger figures. That seems impossible at the start.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#177

Post by psalaun »

jmaw wrote: post #103
spiffytech wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who can cook a lot of food pretty well, but don't understand why they can't use a laser thermometer to check their meat. Knowing really is half the battle.

Ok, using a laser thermometer for food is hilarious. Thanks for this xD

for a caramel or some sauces it's legit

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#178

Post by aqme28 »

spiffytech wrote: post #100
jaggederest wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coffee is a good metaphor here too, because bad technique can ruin a good steak just as surely as good coffee. "knows how to use a meat thermometer and reverse sear" describes like 10% of the population or less, same with coffee - there are people who use a bad grinder and a not-regularly-cleaned Mr. Coffee with good beans and get gas station coffee, and there are people out there making solidly B+ class coffee using…

I know people who can cook a lot of food pretty well, but don't understand why they can't use a laser thermometer to check their meat. Knowing really is half the battle.

If you cook enough you can tell by feel

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#179

Post by addaon »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #115
MostlyStable wrote: post #30

I take the point, but I think the author picked a poor analogy. Cooking even an excellent steak is actually not that hard. In fact, I'd argue that it's among the easiest things to master/make at a top level quality at home. Does it require some modicum of attention and understanding? Sure. But starting with a high quality cut, owning a meat-thermometer, and knowing about reverse searing is about all it takes to relia…

Am I the only one who thinks the "reverse sear" is like cheating? It takes out all of the skill when you move from the pan to the oven, and I lose all of the fun in learning to be chef.

> I lose all of the fun in learning to be chef.

A great steak deserves the respect of preparing it the best, most consistent way you can. For me, that's a reverse sear.

Do something complicated with potatoes to stretch your skills and show off. Worst comes to worst the potatoes are sad.

Re: Software development with AI is starting to feel like cooking steak

#180

Post by Havoc »

>And what do we want?

>We want the perfect steak.

This premise seems incorrect. SWEs may aspire to produce perfect steaks as a matter of pride, but demand asks for mass produced steaks that trade off against other factor like time and cost.

There is a reason github isn't full of nasa lunar lander quality this can't crash code...

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