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Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

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Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#171

Post by tptacek »

jrflowers wrote: post #160
tptacek wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no? I'm not saying office buildings are "just as bad" as data centers; I'm saying they're substantially worse. It is much more unpleasant to have an office building next to your home than it is to have one of the CyrusOne Aurora data centers. The data center is --- seriously go look at them --- basically like having a park next door.

Wait are you saying office buildings bring less to the community because so, so, so many more people work in them than in data centers Do you think a community is your house

The office buildings next to the CyrusOne data centers in the western suburbs are not filled with people from Aurora. They're filled with commuters.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#172

Post by tptacek »

locknitpicker wrote: post #150
tptacek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. The data centers in Aurora are surrounded with prairie green space; everything else, including the nicest office buildings, are a sea of eyesore asphalt parking lots. I get there can be real concerns, locally-specific, about energy usage (again: they…

> The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. This baseless assertion contrasts with any report or reasoning. They are noise generators operating 24/7 that eradicate social activity and purpose to such a degree that makes high-security prisons feel like community centers. Please in your own wor…

No. You can drive right into the parking lot of a CyrusOne data center in Aurora and listen. You're not going to hear anything.

Nobody is disputing that Elon Musk or whoever has built data centers powered by jet turbines or whatever, or that those are good. I'm being specific about what I'm talking about, and you're responding with a platitude.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#173

Post by esikich »

veunes wrote: post #164
mixdup wrote: post #24

I don't know what DC Blox was going to put in this particular datacenter, but they are a "traditional" colocation datacenter company. Maybe this one would've been superdense GPUs with a jet engine as electrical generator causing all kinds of noise, but it's also just as likely this would've been a project that 5 years ago no one would've batted an eye over, and wouldn't cause any issues in the local neighborhood That…

Maybe, but "this would probably have been fine five years ago" is not a very reassuring standard. The physical impact matters more than whether the racks are running email servers or training models.

A traditional colo DC isn't running super power dense GPUs and doesn't use water cooling. These exist in whatever city you live in and no one knows where they are because there is no impact. They are completely different beasts.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#174

Post by veunes »

welcome_dragon wrote: post #110

I live in Nashville. This story is all over the place in general. People assume all the things like it will make their rates go up, etc. I'm not opposed to data centers in general but the location is right next to our zoo which has grown tremendously along with the city over the past twenty years. Took my kids there when they were small and we still have a couples membership. It's very difficult even here to get fact…

This sounds like one of those cases where the opposition may be right about the project and still wrong about the mechanism

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#175

Post by bruce511 »

darth_avocado wrote: post #80
conductr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aesthetics are important. Everyone enjoys looking at a golf course, even non-golfers. Nobody wants to look at a datacenter. My general thought is, what’s the argument for placing them in populated areas to begin with? Why dedicate land use for it in Nashville? Wouldn’t putting it 40 miles outside town work just as well? Why don’t we create development zones specifically for these things? In Dallas we have a similar t…

Try living next to a constant 80-100 dB hum 24x7. You’d not be complaining about people being irrational.

I'm sure there are data centers that make a noise. And if you're firing up a generator that's a separate issue.

But the noise from computer fans and power supplies is easy to ameliorate and can be a trivial permit requirement.

The noise is all high-frequency which means most anything will stop it. Frankly building an earth berm around the site would kill all the noise and make it better to look at. Throw in some trees and you're done.

I get the water and power concerns. But (in the right locations) both are solvable. Power can be balanced with power generation (off site) especially solar and wind. Water isn't really "used" it's just necessary as a heat-sink so as long as it's available it can stay available.

Yes, govt should write permits carefully. And there are locations it is not suitable. But opposition to data centers in general is just hype.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#176

Post by mapping365 »

veunes wrote: post #170
j2kun wrote: post #70

What I think is nice is that the political parties opposed to data center development are actually taking concrete steps, exercising specific powers, to advance their goals. So much opposition to tech boils down to whining, and then the tech companies get to do whatever they want anyway. Same complaint applies generally to the democratic establishment. It's nice to see people finally waking up to the reality that opp…

If the city thinks data centers are incompatible with certain areas, it should encode that through zoning, permitting, utility pricing, noise limits, etc.

I feel like that is besides the point. I think the fact that ended up this way is an illustration how hardened the public has become. There's no niceties, procedure. The public has been pushed well past that point. This is not a negotiation.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#178

Post by esikich »

mixdup wrote: post #108
RandallBrown wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the unfortunate thing about the current climate around datacenters I always get a chuckle when I see people complaining about datacenters on the Internet .

You can advocate for changes to a system while living and existing within the system. In fact, that's probably required to actually make any changes. No one is going to listen to some crazy kook in a cabin in Montana

You can't without making an effort to reduce your dependence on it. The most anti DC people I see are chronically online blasting their shit all over social media. Typically influencers, who make a living using said DCs, all day long. Social media directly supports what they are against. There are other ways to spread your message and when they choose the one method that directly goes against the message they are trying to put out, I'm not going to take them seriously, and will also assume they don't know what they're talking about.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#179

Post by jrflowers »

tptacek wrote: post #171
jrflowers wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait are you saying office buildings bring less to the community because so, so, so many more people work in them than in data centers Do you think a community is your house

The office buildings next to the CyrusOne data centers in the western suburbs are not filled with people from Aurora. They're filled with commuters.

That’s wild, where do all the people from Aurora work? The data centers? Also what does the specific building or set of buildings you hate in one town have to do with the concept of office buildings

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#180

Post by altmanaltman »

ericcumbee wrote: post #125
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But data centers basically take land and resources and generate almost nothing for the local community. The jobs are minimal after the data center is built. It's a giant windowless box. I would much rather have a strip mall in my community. Strip malls often have local businesses as tenants (so money made by the business then gets spent in the community), and they provide services the local community can interact wit…

Property Tax revenue, and they are not a drain on services like schools, roads, fire department, police department etc. I'm watching this debate in a town that i am from and where I live. Our choices are pretty much be swallowed up by growth from neighboring cities and become a bed room community or solar farms and data centers. The downside with becoming a bedroom community is you risk creating a negative tax base.…

Yeah if you look at it purely from a municipal profit and loss point of view, datacenters are clearly great in that they ideally would pay higher taxes and have less drain than something like a shopping mall.

But in this case you also need to consider other points of view to decide what the right answer is, such as the extreme resource extraction datacenters have, pollution issues, and the opportunity cost of using limited land for other purposes.

If you're looking purely from a short-term profit and loss analysis and ignore all other factors, datacenters is the right answer by default but you arrive it at it using the wrong method.

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