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GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

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Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#171
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, why care what the American founding fathers thought? There have been two centuries since then of developments in democratic countries that some Americans could choose as a model they like more. And now it's the Chinese century anyway.

To be fair, there have been a few democratic developments since the founding fathers were around. 27 at the last count.

Pretty good law imo.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#172
These are the relevant GrapheneOS statements:

Duress hidden profiles viability statement:

https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2082153517234676150#m

Regular defenses statement:

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/40700-grapheneos-protection...

Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49055169

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#173
post #98

any reason with graphine os to wipe vs power off? Unless you have an easy bfu password doesn't it protect you from multiple password attempts?

It uses hardware with a secure element only permitting 20 attempts. The past 5 unique attempts are rejected early out for usability.

We published a technical overview of how GrapheneOS protects against data extraction covering the major protections it adds:

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/40700-grapheneos-protection...

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#174

Couldn’t GrapheneOS provide a special pin which boots into an “empty”session? Where the user can install some default stuff to not look suspicious?

People are doing that in Belarus (since 2020 the repression still continue). You also need to create a convincing profile and story for all the usual apps. Alibi if you wish.

Not forensically safe. I guess the authorities are aware but don't take the steps all the time except important cases. Really puts the citizens on their toes.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#175

Couldn’t GrapheneOS provide a special pin which boots into an “empty”session? Where the user can install some default stuff to not look suspicious?

It would be easily detected by widely used forensic software from Cellebrite and other companies. It would also definitely look suspicious. We explained in much more depth in response to a related proposal:

https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2082153517234676150#m

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#177

Couldn’t GrapheneOS provide a special pin which boots into an “empty”session? Where the user can install some default stuff to not look suspicious?

It would be easily detected by widely used forensic software from Cellebrite and other companies. It would also definitely look suspicious. We explained in much more depth in response to a related proposal: https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2082153517234676150#m

Can you pay someone or have a volunteer manage the social media? Seems like not a good use of an insanely skilled developer's time to reply to people on twitter so much. Obviously you should write the explanatory posts.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#178

It is illegal to lie to a police officer in the US. It's better to remain silent than to tell a lie. Giving a false PIN is a lie. And that by itself is a crime. I'm not taking sides here, I just wanted to make that clear. And you should understand that they can lie to you. That's OK and legal, but you cannot lie to them.

There are limits to the lies they can tell, IIRC. They are limited to lies which would not harm an innocent person. So if an officer says "We have your fingerprints on the murder weapon", that is fine, because an innocent person will know that there is no way that can be true. Whereas a guilty person would presumably find that lie plausible.

But if an officer gets a confession by saying, "They just passed an amendment, and you don't have the right to a lawyer anymore, so you have to answer my question or I'll send you to a torture dungeon", that is a lie that can harm anyone, regardless of guilt.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#179
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while attempting to avoid armchair-law-interpreting because I really do not intend that, and I agree that this is going to be an interesting/deeply-worrying legal case: wiping the device before carrying it across the border seems essentially identical to me. like, saying "you can't wipe it when searched" would also imply "you can't have an empty device when crossing because it may have been wiped before the search to…

To my knowledge, no citizen has ever been prevented from reentry due to a blank or absent device. In fact they cannot block a citizen’s legal reentry for any reason, they can only detain you while they investigate. Beyond this, “I dropped my phone in the ocean” is always a perfectly valid reason. If you’re a foreigner and they already suspect you of something, they can deny you entry for any reason. It may be better…

No citizen afaik. Foreigners yes, afaik. Bad, but materially different... but slippery slope arguments are rather predictive with the current government controllers.

Re: GrapheneOS Defends Data-Wiping Function That Blocked US Border Search

#180

And this is why part of my plans for any international travel are to simply have a physical notebook with phone numbers to trusted friends/family and to buy throwaway devices on the other side (phone and chromebook or similar). TBF, similar mindset if I ever attend defcon, etc. as well.

The simpler option is to fly through a place with USA pre-clearance. At least in Canada you can revoke you application to enter the USA at any time when in pre-clearance, and there are very limited instances when you can be legally detained by CBP (mostly around being an immediate threat or the CBP officer has evidence that you broke a law such as attempted smuggling).

I currently fly to the USA through Canada and if CBP ever insists on seeing my phone I will revoke my application to enter and accept that Im most likely banned from entry for a while.

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