I wonder why Apple stayed absent from signing this?
I think if anyone at Apple signs a plea that has the word 'open' in it they spontaneously combust into flames
Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
171–180 of 337 posts
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#172It would be interesting to know how many optimizations of the Chinese models were incorporated back into Claude and Codex.
Let me put it this way: if they're not ripping off all that they can, their investors need to shitcan the leadership.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Makes sense for Microsoft. Copilot is already capable of being model agnostic (both GH Copilot, obviously, and M365 as well). They're an enterprise software & services company, they want to sell integrated AI tooling in their stack, powered by whatever models their customers want rather than any specific model. Models are quickly becoming a dumb pipe, like an ISP. Just a commodity. The labs should rightfully be terri…
I don't know about that, a lot of those bloated enterprise solutions are becoming obsolete fast, and integrations becoming a moot point as these models advance.
Maybe for startups or simple orgs, but in any regulated industry/high compliance requirements they are still useful or outright required.
Claude Team w/ Cowork still only lets you set R/W permissions globally for each MCP connector for the whole team, they still don't offer config on a per-user basis. The enterprise controls are sorely lacking first party. Maybe fine for most startups or flat orgs, but any established enterprise with strong identity & access governance is going to have an issue with that. You can make it work, but you need to make your own agent/harness and give it an identity in Entra or whatever else you use, so for a non-tech company without a dev team, right back to square one of preferring to just buy a COTS solution vs trying to hand out direct model access with minimal governance.
(M365) Copilot sucks but Microsoft is putting a ton of work into agent governance & identity that sorely lacking elsewhere.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, not low at all. In the Midwest that’s exceedingly normal, even for non-entry level. $70k a year is living good in the Midwest, especially if dual income household ($140k a year is plenty when a decent house goes for $300k).
This is extremely regional dependent. Please don’t think 70K is living large across the majority of the Midwest, it is not.
It might not be living large, but it's a very comfortable income for a single person in pretty much the whole region.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#175Ultimately the market will balance demand and supply. From a strategic perspective big players want to get to a level playing field as soon as possible as then their market reach and capital wins the game. Pesky nimble small closed upstarts are in the best case a costly distraction and in the worst case a threat - Antropic and Openai did not sign the letter.
Predictable power play by corporate strategy and legal departments.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#176I don't feel it's meaningful to berate the point anymore about the hypocrisy of the American labs. Now as the sentiment and effort from them to push for regulation increases so does my perception of how pathetic they are behaving. I'm not sure how else to say it other than that it's honestly just embarrassing to watch China and others run circles around us in the USA.
> I'm not sure how else to say it other than that it's honestly just embarrassing to watch China and others run circles around us in the USA.
The gap is shrinking, but considering their models still lag our frontier, I wouldn't say they "run circles" around us.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#177> The unbearable cheapness of open weight models So the closed model try to get client with their model by saying it's cheaper than employees, and then turn around to lawyer-out cheaper alternative? Truly the american dream.
And the verdict is still out on if it's going to be cheaper than employees in the long run. Maybe for companies in HCoL areas (SV/NYC), but any smaller mid-market org in a LCoL area, frontier model token spend may not end up all that cheaper when your employee salaries are $55k-$75k/year so you're mostly evaluating it as an additional force multiplier expense rather than a headcount replacer.
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Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, not low at all. In the Midwest that’s exceedingly normal, even for non-entry level. $70k a year is living good in the Midwest, especially if dual income household ($140k a year is plenty when a decent house goes for $300k).
Fair enough, 55k would’ve seemed pretty low to me in the NE for a fresh dev. Not 75k though.
55k is low for a dev, but not for a ton of other office/administrative roles that are threatened by AI automation.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the verdict is still out on if it's going to be cheaper than employees in the long run. Maybe for companies in HCoL areas (SV/NYC), but any smaller mid-market org in a LCoL area, frontier model token spend may not end up all that cheaper when your employee salaries are $55k-$75k/year so you're mostly evaluating it as an additional force multiplier expense rather than a headcount replacer.
The fully loaded cost of employees at that salary level is likely over $100K. You may still be right on the relative expenses, but you can't just look at the top-level salary line.
There are a lot of unknowns. It will probably be harder to get an acceptable quality outcome in most fields than in the text-based, limited vocabulary, comparatively highly structured, granularly documented, relatively unambiguous world of code. For the ones where it’s even possible with our current approach, the economics might not even be feasible to provide the service. Based on how much money these companies need to start making to keep the infrastructure running, let alone expanding, we just don’t know what the landscape will even look like in a couple years.
Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models
#180I'm finding the list of signatories on this letter really interesting and somewhat confusing, looking purely through the lens of economic interest. It makes sense to see Meta, the startups, and the VC firms on this list. And it makes sense to see OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google all missing. Microsoft is somewhat unexpected to me. I don't think of them as having a focus on open weight models (no more than Google), and t…
> But the letter is really about _American_ open weights models. AI models don’t really have nationality. They don’t have race/ethnicity fields on their model cards. It’s impossible to determine the country of origin of a model by looking at their weights. There is no DNA test for AIs. They exist in a mathematical space where human-made borders make no sense. This means IF there is a regulation for open weight models…
People certainly don't act that way. A lot of the talk is about how great free Chinese models are. Like, they're grouped by the fact that they're Chinese.
How much of that is organic versus something a agitprop agent is commenting in places like HN would be interesting to know, but people very much talk about that from a nationality perspective.