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Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

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Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#171

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

jmye wrote: post #128
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane level of cope. The whole tokenmaxxing thing started because Jensen Huang said insane things like having a single engineer spend 250k in tokens or he’d fire him; and that OpenClaw was basically AGI. > No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. Yes the people forcing these mandates absolutely are this stupid because that’s what people like Jen…

How many “average C-levels” have you talked to? What, specifically, do you think that actually means? Do you think the average CMO and CTO are identical, and have identical profiles in this case? Or are you just blathering about things you’ve never experienced because you met the “CEO” of a five person company once? I find grand proclamations by people who speak in TikTok absolutely laughable memeing.

You don't need to meet these C-levels personally. They spread their insane hot AI takes everywhere and go out of their way to market this crap at conferences, etc.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#172

Post by Forgeties79 »

aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

> Now they know what’s possible and what’s not.

They really don’t IMO. Hell most of the companies pushing these tools don’t even agree what LLMs are for or are capable of. Too many people are trying to use it to cut too many corners on their work (making more work for everyone else) or are using it to attempt things they don’t know how to do, which means they are incapable of vetting the results, (vibe coding anyone?) which means more instances of the first case or even getting hurt.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#173

Post by robocat »

dspillett wrote: post #122
herval wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

having heard the arguments made by some VP + C-levels throughout the Tokenmaxxing Tulip Mania, I think the interpretation that those mandates were made intentionally for "forcing employees to start leveraging AI in meaningful ways" is too charitable. Most companies focused entirely on doing "what everyone else is doing" at best or "to see if Programmer Joe can be as productive as the entire team so we can fire the re…

> Most companies focused entirely on doing "what everyone else is doing" This is true of my current overlords. It slipped recently that the reason they went AI-nuts was that a competitor had announced going “AI first” and the market responded excitedly. Not because they thought it was a good idea: because the market got excited and they didn't want to get left behind. This is quite a change as our market is financial…

Isn't it easier to get a job when you already have a job?

There's some jobs I'd love to do, but I can't face the bullshit of tertiary education again.

Without some sort of ticket, job choices become more limited?

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#174

Post by no-name-here »

herval wrote: post #6
aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

having heard the arguments made by some VP + C-levels throughout the Tokenmaxxing Tulip Mania, I think the interpretation that those mandates were made intentionally for "forcing employees to start leveraging AI in meaningful ways" is too charitable. Most companies focused entirely on doing "what everyone else is doing" at best or "to see if Programmer Joe can be as productive as the entire team so we can fire the re…

> many indeed fired employees in droves because they were "underperforming in token spend"

1. Source for that 4-word quotation? I googled it, but it appears you are the only person who has ever said it?

2. Even if you made up the quote, source for the claim that "many" "fired employees in droves" for "underperforming in token spend"? (Again, even if the companies never used those words, I'm still interested in the source for the claim about many companies firing employees in droves for low token use.)

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#175

Post by ido »

herval wrote: post #6
aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

having heard the arguments made by some VP + C-levels throughout the Tokenmaxxing Tulip Mania, I think the interpretation that those mandates were made intentionally for "forcing employees to start leveraging AI in meaningful ways" is too charitable. Most companies focused entirely on doing "what everyone else is doing" at best or "to see if Programmer Joe can be as productive as the entire team so we can fire the re…

Some companies are badly managed (at least in some aspects). But it’s also true that some devs need to be pushed - sometimes forcibly - out of their comfort zone.

I’ve had multiple instances of taking months/years to get some devs to use a more sophisticated git client than GitHub Desktop (so they could properly do anything but the most trivial merges/rebases for example). Or to learn how to use the debugger instead of just printing/logging for debugging. For some of them getting them to seriously figure out how to better use AI required a bunch of repeated prodding.

Funnily enough a few years ago they enthusiastically jumped on copilot’s fancier autocomplete in VS Code, but getting them to really figure out how to get the most out of Claude Code required more pushing.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#176

Post by TeMPOraL »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #171
jmye wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many “average C-levels” have you talked to? What, specifically, do you think that actually means? Do you think the average CMO and CTO are identical, and have identical profiles in this case? Or are you just blathering about things you’ve never experienced because you met the “CEO” of a five person company once? I find grand proclamations by people who speak in TikTok absolutely laughable memeing.

You don't need to meet these C-levels personally. They spread their insane hot AI takes everywhere and go out of their way to market this crap at conferences, etc.

Did you read those hot takes personally, or only had them reported on by your favorite YouTube/TikTok pundits? Hint: YouTubers and Tiktokers are in business, and that business is entertainment, and they're about as truthful as a fortune teller.

(Difference being, one of these groups is just lying about objective reality that's trivial to independently verify, the other one are just unlicensed therapists with thousand years old rituals).

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#177

Post by [deleted] »

jmye wrote: post #123
baconmania wrote: post #8

The implication that tokenmaxxing was an intentional and thoughtfully considered approach rather than blind hype-following by an overpaid manager class who are too far removed from value to understand the downsides of LLMs is hysterical beyond belief.

Eh, it’s less hysterical than the ever-pervasive belief among junior devs that they are the smartest people in the room and that all managers everywhere are dumb. Though I understand that gets social validation from other people with no actual experience.

[deleted]

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#178

Post by no-name-here »

therein wrote: post #24
aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

> Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. No, it was a sinister way to manufacture your consent to cause cognitive atrophy in your employees so that you lose your ability to independently operate your business. You'll come to realize this once they begin charging you more and more for tokens but you will probably not blame yourself for it.

> to cause cognitive atrophy in your employees so that you lose your ability to independently operate your business

The argument is tokenmaxxing was put in place by companies, with the goal of causing their employees to lose knowledge?

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#179

Post by baconmania »

not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #152
baconmania wrote: post #8

The implication that tokenmaxxing was an intentional and thoughtfully considered approach rather than blind hype-following by an overpaid manager class who are too far removed from value to understand the downsides of LLMs is hysterical beyond belief.

> overpaid manager class Ugh. Tell me you're early in career without telling me. Sophomoric take.

Sorry to disappoint bud, I'm a manager of managers. Being able to look critically at your own tribe is one of the first skills you learn if you want to survive as someone telling other people how to do their jobs.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#180

Post by eloisius »

SR2Z wrote: post #46
baconmania wrote: post #8

The implication that tokenmaxxing was an intentional and thoughtfully considered approach rather than blind hype-following by an overpaid manager class who are too far removed from value to understand the downsides of LLMs is hysterical beyond belief.

I really don't understand this take. If you're a carpentry shop that just bought power tools for the first time and you're worried that your employees are sticking with hand tools because that's what they know, then you look for sawdust. The goal isn't to have people work at converting wood into sawdust, the point is that if you wanna see if the tools are working you wanna see proof they're actually being used. I'm s…

They didn’t measure sawdust accumulation. They measured the electricity bill.
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