Apple - Think Twice • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#171

Post by fatbird » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:51 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #120

michael_miller wrote: post #73

I can't help but think that the majority of comments here are the loud minority. Apple's products have had faults, I'll be the first to admit. But do we really think that even 5% of Apple's millions of customers are having issues with their purchases? If that were the case, we'd see class action lawsuits against the company, the NYTimes/WSJ covering Apple's shoddy manufacturing processes, and Apple's reputation takin…

Seeing as you're picking my comments out, I'm rather passionate when it comes to this as I really don't want other people to go through the excruciating pain both mentally and financially that I have. Nor do I want people to be left totally in the mire by something which was marketed to me as a superior product. Life is about sharing experiences and these are valid experiences, albeit bad ones. To shy away from a war…

To pretend that your experience is anything other than an outlier, given aggregated data to the contrary, is also illogical.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#172

Post by WayneDB » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:51 PM UTC

burriko wrote: post #139

Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doi…

It's not unheard of. I've had Dell service people out to my office on the same day. I don't think Apple even offers on-site service.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#173

Post by timbre » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:51 PM UTC

Osmium wrote: post #39

jug6ernaut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the whole point of the article. The point isn't with the fact that there is an issue, its that Apple is seemingly trying to sweep it under the rug.

> The point isn't with the fact that there is an issue, its that Apple is seemingly trying to sweep it under the rug. I don't think that's quite it. Apple realises there's a problem, and that's why they have the standardised test. I think the real problem here is that Apple's test is insufficient, but they don't know that, so they don't believe their customers when they say they're having still having issues. And tha…

It's hard for me to believe that they don't know the test is insufficient when the protocol involves waiting 1 minute for the problem to go away.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#174

Post by eropple » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

rozap wrote: post #164

eropple wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never heard of a satisfied long term customer Four MBPs, including a retina MBP. Couldn't be happier. Two iPads and two iPhones, switched to Android largely because of a new job and because I wanted a local environment for running vim. See? Other people have anecdotes too. But I get that contrariness and the application of your own pet anecdotes over evidence is really fun, so continue, by all means.

I think what he's going for is that, had you kept your original MBP, you would be unsatisfied. Not saying he's right or wrong there. However, I think it is fair to say that the majority of Apple fans often have a pretty frequent upgrade cycle. Consequently I don't think there are too many "long term customers" of Apple products in his sense of the word. I think Meaty is really going for "long term" customer as in - i…

I'd be "unsatisfied" because a slow processor, a 4GB RAM maximum, and a shitty GPU would suck, sure. I upgrade and sell my old machines on a yearly basis or so because paying a $300-$400 delta (sell the old one, buy the new one) is worth it to have something in the target area for Apple and for developers. There's no point for me in keeping older devices long-term because nobody really targets the trailing edge. I spend more on car repairs in any given year than I do on my laptop upgrades; it is just not a significant amount of money.

If "people who keep old stuff" was what he was really going for, he's doing poorly at describing it, because I don't think that "long term customer" doesn't mean "customer who refuses to upgrade for geologic eras" among reasonable folks. And I certainly don't think an ecosystem where newer devices are generally preferred is a symptom of "bad engineering"--more "engineering decisions he doesn't like." Every MBP iteration has made me much more pleased to actually use the machine, and that's the core of what matters.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#175

Post by astrodust » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

wesleyd wrote: post #89

astrodust wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're essentially saying that any computer with a metal case, or extensive metal shielding inside could suffer the same problem. HP makes a number of metal laptops, for instance, in an effort to make them more recyclable, the same reasoning behind Apple's materials decision. Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red jo…

> Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s That's the point! Thinkpad T series laptops are what apple laptops can only dream of being.

Oh, so it's like wearing an ironic t-shirt?

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#176

Post by crag » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:55 PM UTC

Breakthrough wrote: post #76

michael_miller wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, you have to keep in mind that Apple is producing millions of units and, for its own sake, can't be beholden to a single supplier. If they were, that supplier would have enormous leverage ("pay us $5b now, or we will stop shipping you screens for your flagship laptop."). Aside from that, they'd also be susceptible to production issues - imagine if Samsung's factory had a fire/flood/hurricane and…

You have absolutely no concept of the difference between "leverage" and "extortion", the latter of which is exactly what you described. Last I checked, not only is extorting your customers bad for business, it's probably illegal. That being said, I'm going to dare throw an anti-Apple comment in here: after all the BS Apple's pulled in the past few years, I'm sure most people in the world wouldn't blink twice if Samsu…

" How do you think Samsung feels?"

Samsung feels fine. They're making billions.

Oh by the way, Samsung deserves everything they get from Apple. Since Samsung has been down this road before; TV, business phones - it's a long list of products Samsung copied, dumps onto the market and then hides behinds it's "culture". Meanwhile Samsung now has carved a foot hold in your market. Effective strategy. And it's worked for them for years.

What I find funny is that it all goes around. Cause now Samsung is being copied by cheap Chinese knock-offs. Who are flooding the Chinese market.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#177

Post by dpark » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:56 PM UTC

spitx wrote: post #146

meaty wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I'm not. I'm saying that there is no acceptable insulation in the device. The chassis for example uses air gap between the board and the base for insulation. Even condensation can bridge it, which is the theory why mine exploded. Regarding appearance, and? Does that really matter? Why you pick a ThinkPad: http://appel.hu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/rollcage.jpg That and you can throw the damn thing across the…

Shucks. I don't even have a dog in this fight except for the following facts 1) I am a current owner of the storied T61 and 2) I have grown fond of the stupendously neat rMBP and am mulling getting one. That and you can throw the damn thing across the room and it'll still work. Mine is 5 years old, has been thrown, dropped, spilled on, yanked off the table, stood on and it's as good as new. Now that I've been made fa…

> rMBP owners: Please do share your insights into the mean level of abuse your units have handsomely survived.

I do not own a rMBP, but laptops in general are not as fragile as we sometimes imagine. Most of the failures I've experienced over the years have been for things unrelated to drops. I've had a dead screen backlight, a dead trackpad (water spill), and similar one-off failures. I've also seen overheating, failed logic boards, and of course dead batteries. I've never seen a laptop that died because someone dropped it (though obviously that can happen).

However, if you drop a metal laptop, you're likely to get scratches and dents. You won't see that as much on a Thinkpad because the plastic will shrug this off better. With cheaper plastic laptops, you might see cracked plastic.

If you drop your laptop a lot, you might want something like a ThinkPad just so it won't get dinged up. But then you might want to just stop dropping your laptop so much.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#178

Post by jspthrowaway2 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:56 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #120

michael_miller wrote: post #73

I can't help but think that the majority of comments here are the loud minority. Apple's products have had faults, I'll be the first to admit. But do we really think that even 5% of Apple's millions of customers are having issues with their purchases? If that were the case, we'd see class action lawsuits against the company, the NYTimes/WSJ covering Apple's shoddy manufacturing processes, and Apple's reputation takin…

Seeing as you're picking my comments out, I'm rather passionate when it comes to this as I really don't want other people to go through the excruciating pain both mentally and financially that I have. Nor do I want people to be left totally in the mire by something which was marketed to me as a superior product. Life is about sharing experiences and these are valid experiences, albeit bad ones. To shy away from a war…

Ah, so you're here to save all of us from Apple. The histrionic savior, loudly and annoyingly warning us of our impending doom while wearing a sandwich board with Apple crossed out on it.

The comments in this thread are ridiculous. Yours, I think, set a large part of the tone. Get passionate about something that matters; the purchasing habits of people you are never going to meet are not your concern, and the reasons you buy or don't buy something are very different from mine.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#179

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:57 PM UTC

jad wrote: post #147

I had the same problem with a rMBP. Apple replaced mine at the Apple Store even though I couldn't show them the problem while I was there. They even gave me the extra charging brick that came in the new machine's box. I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock.

"I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock."

That surprised me - I was looking at an MBP purchase at an Apple Store (fairly large one, Tacoma WA).

My options were only 4GB and various sizes of HDDs.

They "did not" stock 8GB models, or SSD models. Not "were out of", but did not.

They offered to install more memory, but at the (already extortionate Apple price) cost of the full 8GB (and give me 4GB back).

I ended up buying a Vaio Z, and have been fantastically happy with it: Carbon Fiber body, 13" 2.5lb, with a better processor (Core i7 3612), better screen (1920x1080), better graphics, and 8GB of memory. Oh, and it was cheaper.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#180

Post by indiecore » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:58 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #131

meaty wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it. The pretty factor is not at all important, neither is blindly copying a vendor.

I guess I should be wearing shoes made from truck tires and old seatbelts, shirts made from recycled canvas bags, and underpants made from old rags because who cares about appearances.

Realize that aesthetics are largely subjective. I personally think the Thinkpad line looks a hell of a lot BETTER than the rounded corner/aluminum macbooks.