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Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

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Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#171

Post by konart »

ReptileMan wrote: post #165
konart wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you coming from, but both Russia classics Soviet and modern authors have decent comedy pieces. Not to mention works that are just not about suffering but life.

Yes, but the people that have read Moscow 2042 count in the numbers of fingers on the hand of carefree bandsaw user compared to the people that have read Crime and Punishment. Which when I read it I understood that I was punished, but had not idea what my crime was. The only widely known fun book outside of Russia is Master and Margarita.

>The only widely known fun book outside of Russia is Master and Margarita.

I pretty sure Chekhov (as an example) is widely known outside of Russia and he's master of short fun stories, no?

In fact I'd even say he's somewhat more popular in the West than in Russia.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#172

Post by fssys »

nephihaha wrote: post #125
ventana wrote: post #81

As a Russian native speaker who graduated from the high school in Russia many years ago, one thing that I don't really understand is why these great works of Russian literature are included in the school must read list. An average teenager, myself included, always has some better things to do than reading a huge novel, barely understanding characters' motivations, because neither of these books were ever intended for…

This isn't a specific Russian problem. English speaking school children are forced to read Shakespeare, and I really don't think that works either. (That isn't a condemnation of Shakespeare but of schooling.) I do love literature, but that is in spite of school not because of it. School did a lot to put me off some books. I was lucky to have read Golding's "Lord of the Flies" before our class did, because it gave me…

Shakespeare is good for kids, its mostly quite light and fun and not very long, theres a linguistic challenge but thats a good learning opportunity

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#173

Post by simiones »

nephihaha wrote: post #142
kelnos wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read any Dostoyevsky since high school, and don't remember it at all, but I'd imagine it has to do with nicknames. A non-Russian speaker is going to be confused when the same character is referred to as both Alexander and Sasha, for example, and will think they're different people.

I've never understood this particular issue. My mother had it too with Russian literature. Many Russian books have a "cast list" at the beginning to get round this. I don't find it any stranger than William being called Will, Wullie, Bill or Billy; or Robert turning into Rob, Robbie, Rab, Bert, Bob or Bobby; or Elizabeth being turned into Liz, Lizzy, Beth, Betty, Liza, Lilbet etc. I found most Russian diminutives are…

I don't think it's conceptually difficult, it's just hard (for some of us, at least) to remember the names of a culture you haven't been exposed to. I speak a language with slavonic influence, so I didn't have this problem with Russian literature, but I remember vividly how hard it was to remember the names of characters in the first anime I watched, just because I was so unaccostemed to Japanese names (even though they were clearly very distinctive).

The recall of words you aren't familiar with tends to be pretty poor. This is also visible in how hard it can be to build vocabulary when learning a new language, and how you can completely mix up words at that stage - there's nothing about names that makes this any easier.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#174

Post by perfunctory »

I am genuinely curious why Russian literature is so popular in non-Russian speaking world. How do you wake up one day and decide to read Crime and Punishment? How do you find out about Russian literature in the first place? Recommendation from a friend, marketing in your favorite book store, school? Could somebody shed some light

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#175

Post by bloak »

orthoxerox wrote: post #133
SugarReflex wrote: post #63

I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I truly felt like I was the main character, and I read it with feverish sweat and dread for my impending doom. I cringed and felt terrible sadness at the poor little lives of certain individuals. So much woe and tragedy. I was glad to see how it turned out though. I'm currently reading Karamazov and it's good to have something a bit more jovial and dry witted. The main diffic…

> The main difficulty is the names. The names make it so hard. What's wrong with the names? I find Chinese novels much harder to read because everyone's named C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou} C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou}C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou}.

I think the problem with Russian names in particular is that a Russian name has three parts (e.g. Nikolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky) and different parts get used in different contexts, depending on who's speaking, level of familiarity and so on. So it's like in an English novel where someone might be referred to as Smith by the narrator but John in dialogue, but with an extra 50%, at least, of confusion.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#176

Post by jhbadger »

perfunctory wrote: post #174

I am genuinely curious why Russian literature is so popular in non-Russian speaking world. How do you wake up one day and decide to read Crime and Punishment? How do you find out about Russian literature in the first place? Recommendation from a friend, marketing in your favorite book store, school? Could somebody shed some light

Well, Crime and Punishment is often taught in US high schools. Or at least was back in the 1980s. During the Cold War there was a lot of interest in Russian literature in general in part because in the bipolar world they were seen as "the other civilization" that we needed to understand if we wanted to avoid nuclear war. You'd think these days people would be more into Chinese literature but except for the Three Body Problem series, I haven't really heard of many Chinese books becoming popular here.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#177

Post by keeeba »

This is not an attempt at affected nonchalance, but I’ve simply never come across the idea that Dostoevsky is particularly difficult to read.

A somewhat gifted teenager will race through it, as will an average adult.

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#178

Post by vkazanov »

perfunctory wrote: post #174

I am genuinely curious why Russian literature is so popular in non-Russian speaking world. How do you wake up one day and decide to read Crime and Punishment? How do you find out about Russian literature in the first place? Recommendation from a friend, marketing in your favorite book store, school? Could somebody shed some light

Well it is kind of an integral part of the classic european literature canon. Certain novel genre's were invented by Russian writers, say, Tolstoy's epic novels.

So the question really is how does one find out about classic writing overall? Outside of school?

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#179

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #137
orthoxerox wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main difficulty is the names. The names make it so hard. What's wrong with the names? I find Chinese novels much harder to read because everyone's named C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou} C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou}C{V[n[g]]|ei|ao|ou}.

I haven't read any Dostoyevsky since high school, and don't remember it at all, but I'd imagine it has to do with nicknames. A non-Russian speaker is going to be confused when the same character is referred to as both Alexander and Sasha, for example, and will think they're different people.

[deleted]

Re: Dostoyevsky isn't difficult

#180

Post by simiones »

konart wrote: post #171
ReptileMan wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the people that have read Moscow 2042 count in the numbers of fingers on the hand of carefree bandsaw user compared to the people that have read Crime and Punishment. Which when I read it I understood that I was punished, but had not idea what my crime was. The only widely known fun book outside of Russia is Master and Margarita.

>The only widely known fun book outside of Russia is Master and Margarita. I pretty sure Chekhov (as an example) is widely known outside of Russia and he's master of short fun stories, no? In fact I'd even say he's somewhat more popular in the West than in Russia.

I would say that Checkhov is mostly known for his plays, not for short fun stories.
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