Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 629 posts

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#171

Post by basch »

wseqyrku wrote: post #144
ddp26 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean chatgpt style AI won't help them with those skills? If a human parent or teacher can help with skills like reading, an AI system can too, once it's trained and designed to do so. (How good are humans at teaching reading anyway?)

They need those skills to be able to communicate with others, not to .. research?

and with a structured tool, what better place to practice writing, process, iteration, revision, editing.

this happens constantly, every day. a current implementation of a technology isnt optimal so the entire class of anything related to that technology is treated as equally flawed.

the solution here is better tools, not preventing better tools from being created.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#172

Post by platevoltage »

bebe83939 wrote: post #89

Great, yet another "no child and no teacher left behind!" I was gifted kid, bored to death at basic school. I was reading books under the table, and was lucky to have tolerant teacher. Total ban would just push me to misbehaving and disrupting the class. AI is amazing tool for learning, if Norway can not harness it, there is something deeply wrong with the educational system. Perhaps teachers unions? Norway has a big…

Calculators are amazing at multiplication tables. Let's just give those to the kids too. It's the same thing. This type of thinking is ruining kids' futures.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#173

Post by froh »

simonw wrote: post #92
irishcoffee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8. I don’t even like LLMs and I’m against this mess. Imagine having regulations rolled out when we were 8 saying “you can’t use the internet!” And I was running my own websites by 10 years old. Let’s stop pretending this tech is as interesting as we wish it was. If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. I don’t see the difference at this po…

> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023: > Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased…

in the intermediate oecd [piaacs report] pages 64ff (PDF page 66ff) there are bar charts indicating the percentiles of each level for each participating nation.

the report also visualizes not only inter country but also intra country outcomes correlating socio economic influences (age, parents, family migration history, ...) and level of education (school, high school, college and higher) with test outcome (literacy, numerics problem solving)

it also has 10y ago/now comparison.

a trove for the Q "how are we doing, capability wise?"

thanks for pointing to the study!!

[piaacs report] https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/report...

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#174

Post by bborud »

bebe83939 wrote: post #122
bborud wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I take it you have some expertise in teaching? At what level? K-12? Middle school? What, in your professional opinion as an educator, should schools do about AI in schools?

I would allow schooling in other languages in primary schools in Norway. Basic education is a human right, and it is not right to force kids out of their mother tongue. Insisting on some obscure language is just misplaced nationalism! AI could help with that.

The the only conclusion I can draw from that is that you know nothing about education and even less about Norway.

FYI: all Norwegians learn at least one foreign language in school. It is mandatory. That means you have to, in case that’s a big word for you.

If you so prefer you will have the option to learn one or two more in middle school and one or two more in high school.

By the time I was 15 I spoke three languages. Everyone at that age would know at least two. Some would know four.

Is it so much to ask that you at least consult the AI tools you speak so fondly of as tools of education before babbling about something you so obviously are deeply ignorant of? If nothing else then at least in lieu of growing a brain?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#175

Post by lukan »

simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

"and has given teachers back more powers to enforce discipline in the classroom.

A big hooray for that."

I don't suppose they are allowed to use physical violence again, still I would like to know what exactly you are cheering here for?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#176

Post by Jimmc414 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #167
Jimmc414 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway spent two decades digitizing classrooms and is now unwinding it. Seems a bit shortsighted and reactionary although I think they are trying to do the right thing. Plus "Generative AI" isn't one single thing. Using it to write your essay is cognitive offloading but using it as a Socratic tutor that gives immediate feedback and adapts to the student is closer to the thing education research says works. There's an…

Please define "AI fluency"? From what I see, it's mainly being able to write and read at a high level, and having a strong media litteracy and critical reasoning sense something you don't need AI for. And having no TV and no smartphone at home and at school is likely the best way to acquire it.

By AI fluency I mean basically knowing how to drive the tools, an intuition for what the tools can and can't do, when to use AI vs doing it yourself, plus detecting when output is wrong, knowing what to verify, etc.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#177

Post by pesus »

setopt wrote: post #83
vorticalbox wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one can no longer search for information in the big search engines without it just giving you the answer. This ruins “search and topic and write about it”

I guess Norwegian schools will have to use smaller / alternative search engines now?

Or books.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#179

Post by vinyl7 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #105
simonw wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023: > Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased…

[flagged]

Yeah well unfortunately the US is pretty shitty in this day and age

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#180

Post by aurelius_44 »

enaaem wrote: post #170

Buddhism identifies three stages of wisdom: 1. Wisdom through dogma. 2. Wisdom through reasoning. 3. Wisdom through experience. AI is just stage 1. Instant and easily digestible. Traditional learning forces you to go to Stage 2, because you are often given too much information and you need to compress it to memorise it. And the best way to compress it, is by finding some kind of logical structure in the information.

Good connection, never thought of it that way.

I learned it as: 1 Knowing what it is. 2 Knowing how it works. 3 Knowing what it can become.

Post reply on HN