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A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

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Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#171

Post by initramfs »

SuperQue wrote: post #158
initramfs wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones don't get "slow" on their own. It's usually due to bloatware from upgrades. Many phone cameras are already quite good. The only remaining reason to upgrade is possible security vulnerabilities, but even that doesn't require heavy software. Supporting larger apps is the main reason the system requirements continue to increase, since Niklaus Wirth wrote, "A Plea For Lean Software" in 1995. But even if people cou…

> Many phone cameras are already quite good. Of course, you and I know that. But most people just listen to the marketing material. My mother's most used feature on her phone is the camera. She asked me about getting a new phone when she has a perfectly working Samsung flagship phone from 3 years ago. The marketing says "The S26 camera is _SOOOO_ much better". But, really, it's exactly the same sensors as the S23.

And unsurprisingly, the S23 camera is probably still better than most entry level phones being released today.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#172

Post by AtlasBarfed »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #126
bostik wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code escrow. You factor in the expense of having your code releases escrowed by a third party (where part of the escrow contract itself is: "must be buildable from sources as provided"), and have a post-release pipeline that automatically uploads the new version. At the end of the term, the escrow holder releases all the versions. This is a fairly common arrangement in high finance. If you want to supply services to…

So if I have software on my website and you pay for it and you’re in some European country that has this law then you (who?) can sue me for not uploading all my builds to what? some s3 endpoint?

We get it, corporations are immortal, formless entities that cannot be compelled to follow law.

... except they need to make that transient, formless concept known as money, and governments CAN use that.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#173

Post by surajrmal »

Aachen wrote: post #118
surajrmal wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing about Android as a platform that forbids installation of your own OS. That's a phone oem choice and the fact Pixel phones can be unlocked proves as much. In fact this is the reason this project is even possible.

There isn't, but part of Google's requirements for using the trademark "Android" is iirc shipping a locked bootloader. If you also want to provide your users with the Play Store (many people will perceive the device as unusable without that), you also can't ship it with a su binary or something. It needs to come in a locked state where people only get user-level access, no permissions to read the data stored on there…

Right, because the android security model considers app developers independent entities with security privileges equal to those of the device owner (in that both parties need to authorize access for things to work, the device owner doesn't have more privileges than the application developer when it comes to the application). Those mechanisms are necessary for that security model to work. If you want to operate with a different security model that's fine, but you just need to use something other than Android. The bootloader situation being optional is Google not getting overly involved in the device maker's business outside of the scope they should have influence on. And they set the precedent via Pixel for how they think others should do it.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#174

Post by numpad0 »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #162
numpad0 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backlights, battery, anything. Modern high performance CPUs need an external debug adapter to set up the board before they can be powered on(old supercomputers did too). Blobs running on a less-modern CPU handles that. The less modern CPU in RasPi is its GPU, but it can be other devices; it can be the modem, or a "security" sub-CPU. IMO it's possible that the bigger issue is no one knows what's going on inside these…

If you read the linked article they throw away everything except the motherboard from the phones.

Doesn't really matter.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#176

Post by croes »

lucb1e wrote: post #13
noodlesUK wrote: post #8

I would love to see regulation that required making bootloaders unlockable to enable this sort of thing. People have been making clusters of consumer hardware for decades: I’m sure people remember the PS3 supercomputers of the mid 2000s. I personally have lots of batch jobs like CFD simulations that could easily run on a fleet of phones with no real reliability issues, and I’d love to reuse old hardware and give it a…

Isn't the story that some gaming consoles were sold at or under cost price and the markup was on the game sales? I don't know if it's fair to require that needs to be unlocked Yet I 100% agree on a generic computing device and they're not really that different in the end. Maybe that it needs to be unlockable after it has been on the market for 4 years or so (all units, no matter when they were sold, no matter if supp…

the requirement could be when the hardware reaches EOL unlock the bootloader

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#177

Post by lucb1e »

croes wrote: post #176
lucb1e wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the story that some gaming consoles were sold at or under cost price and the markup was on the game sales? I don't know if it's fair to require that needs to be unlocked Yet I 100% agree on a generic computing device and they're not really that different in the end. Maybe that it needs to be unlockable after it has been on the market for 4 years or so (all units, no matter when they were sold, no matter if supp…

the requirement could be when the hardware reaches EOL unlock the bootloader

Also for microwaves and dishwashers? That's more the problem I struggle to solve: how to differentiate things that you want to run your own OS on from the things that it would be historically silly to have to provide connectivity and unlocking interfaces for

(On the other hand, our stupid 2026 dishwasher has no flushing program and leaves a ton of residue on the dishes. The 2001 model we inherited from the landlord was perfect, barely used any more power or water but the dishes were actually dry at the end and you could eat from them without ingesting detergent. I wouldn't mind inserting a little rinse cycle in the eco program if there were some documented way of talking to the chip, then for drying we can just let them sit in the opened machine for the remaining 20 hours of the day. Alas. Maybe I should want open source everything!)

Also, what's EOL? When it goes out of warranty after 2 years?

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