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Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#171

Post by gacgacgac »

pipes wrote: post #143
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person is either willfully ignorant, or an actual fascist attempting to blur the line. This exact line of thought has been used for decades to subvert the actual history of the Nazi party and their co-operation with corporations, undermining of labor unions, assault on socialist groups via their brown shirts, etc. This is a fascist talking point. It doesn't matter where the user possibly derived it from. The "Na…

That is a lot of assumptions and personal attacks based on a question that you haven't answered. The soviets also actively clamped down on unions, were they not socialists either? Edit: I'll let someone else make the point for me: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4kg34a/comme...

I don't think you can be authoritarian and socialist. The structures of strict hierarchy necessary to be authoritarian necessarily oppose the egalitarian goals of socialism.

Many, many socialists condemn the Soviets, and even fought against them. Very few socialists believe that forcing the populace at gunpoint to be communist is a good plan.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#172

Post by Matl »

myth_drannon wrote: post #166
Gud wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any other small country? You rarely read about Finland spying on other nations, or trying to influence their politics. There is the AIPAC, I challenge you to find anything similar from any other country.

From https://www.opensecrets.org/ Totals since 2016 Country Total Spending China $562,676,323 Japan $504,111,211 Liberia $432,968,270 Saudi Arabia $421,890,448 Marshall Islands $382,012,024 South Korea $363,237,700 Bahamas $293,205,139 United Arab Emirates $269,529,107 Qatar $269,260,794 Israel $215,168,616 So for small countries UAE and Qatar(no surprise here, they just gifted 1 billion airplane to Trump)

This excludes US based groups lobbying for Israeli interests, which does not count under official spending by Israel, so it is not an accurate representation of the lobbying effort in the interests of Israel.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#173

Post by pipes »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #147
pipes wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a lot of assumptions and personal attacks based on a question that you haven't answered. The soviets also actively clamped down on unions, were they not socialists either? Edit: I'll let someone else make the point for me: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4kg34a/comme...

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the serio…

Are you calling me an anti Semite? Or am I missing the point you are making entirely?

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#174

Post by yieldcrv »

Matl wrote: post #31

Last time I suggested on a similar story that there's a disproportionate number of firms in Israel with an explicit focus on subversion, manipulation, spying and malware, seemingly because a large portion of the Israeli population gain a certain expertise in these fields as part of serving in the IDF and working to suppress Palestinians, I got accused of bias because apparently there's many more Israeli startups work…

IDF conscripts astroturf on social media all day, and a lot of people do the same for free on behalf of the concept of Israel

Don’t worry about the deflections and karma flagging censorship as consensus, because its not

Jewish and Jewish Israeli people are raised to be afraid of the entire world, and think losing a perception game will result in their eradication perpetuated by everyone around them. This is due to a 1,000 year history of exactly that, so I can empathize, but not at the expense of fiction. I don’t want anyone to hurt them. I want the corrosive traits in their culture to be checked and go away.

Put all those PhD’s that some people are so proud of into other pursuits.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#175

Post by gacgacgac »

pipes wrote: post #52
Matl wrote: post #31

Last time I suggested on a similar story that there's a disproportionate number of firms in Israel with an explicit focus on subversion, manipulation, spying and malware, seemingly because a large portion of the Israeli population gain a certain expertise in these fields as part of serving in the IDF and working to suppress Palestinians, I got accused of bias because apparently there's many more Israeli startups work…

[flagged]

I think it's pretty objective. It's honestly possibly even a bit of a pro Israel framing given how passive and soft it is.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#176

Post by tptacek »

bugsense wrote: post #118
tdeck wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what good things other Israeli companies might be doing, it's clear that the Israeli government doesn't have a problem with these malware / spyware companies.

They actively export it. See Pegasus

There are dozens of firms around the world, including several in the US, doing exactly the same thing.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#177

Post by brightball »

ai_fry_ur_brain wrote: post #86
pipes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

National Socialists were capitalists.. You known that right? Not everything with socialsts in the name begets communism, they served Industry and Capital to the fullest and sought to crush any leftist cause. https://jacobin.com/2022/08/nazi-germany-national-socialism-...

Hitler explicitly adopted socialist & anti-capitalist rhetoric early on had heavy state control of industry and price controls in place.

Political extremist always pander to control the people who will listen to them, selling lies at worst or at best hope that depends on a lack of understanding of human behavior and economics to follow things to their natural conclusions. Nazis, Socialists, Marxists, and Communists are all authoritarian extremist who share the same values.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#178

Post by tptacek »

Matl wrote: post #113
magic_hamster wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of offensive security talent, but this has nothing to do with Palestinians. Israeli intelligence is very advanced and is why Israel has been able to eliminate the leaders of Hezbollah and Iran. Not everything in Israel is about or related to Palestinians. The Palestinian bias only exists in circles where every thought regarding Israel is immediately evoking a Palestinian connotation. In reality, most Is…

> There's a lot of offensive security talent, but this has nothing to do with Palestinians. Israeli intelligence is very advanced and is why Israel has been able to eliminate the leaders of Hezbollah and Iran. Not everything in Israel is about or related to Palestinians. I would suggest to you that the focus on Iran is because Iran is perceived as being an obstacle to Israeli hegemony in the region and thus undispute…

Well that and the fact that Iran is (was) the other peer military adversary in the region, with forces deployed on Israel's border, and with a longstanding declared intent of eradicating Israel.

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#179

Post by gatlin »

spwa4 wrote: post #89
bell-cot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... because apparently there's many more Israeli startups working on medical research, green technology and world peace. > If there are, they certainly would do no harm in being more vocal ... Perhaps, but - talk to someone who's done PR work for startups. Ask them what it would take for an Israeli startup working on, say, home bagel-making machines to get the sort of world-wide media attention that any Israeli cre…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Israeli firm BlackCore suspected of meddling in New York and Scotland votes

#180

Post by woodruffw »

Matl wrote: post #172
myth_drannon wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://www.opensecrets.org/ Totals since 2016 Country Total Spending China $562,676,323 Japan $504,111,211 Liberia $432,968,270 Saudi Arabia $421,890,448 Marshall Islands $382,012,024 South Korea $363,237,700 Bahamas $293,205,139 United Arab Emirates $269,529,107 Qatar $269,260,794 Israel $215,168,616 So for small countries UAE and Qatar(no surprise here, they just gifted 1 billion airplane to Trump)

This excludes US based groups lobbying for Israeli interests, which does not count under official spending by Israel, so it is not an accurate representation of the lobbying effort in the interests of Israel.

That seems like the categorically correct thing to do, for the same reason that (for example) a domestic Korean-American nonprofit that lobbies for Korean interests doesn’t get counted as foreign money or influence.

(Perhaps it should be! But it should be consistent, whatever it is.)

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