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Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

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Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#171

Post by abby3010 »

netfortius wrote: post #164
keyle wrote: post #17

I've been in those companies where "struggling departments" ended up getting all the praises and raise in budgets the following quarter because of the heroic saves they did, and raising awareness on how important they are... For stuff they totally caused on themselves. Meanwhile, my perfectly purring department was struggling to keep the lights on. It's a serious problem in this industry due to the disconnect between…

In my 35+ years in IT, the "hero attitude" was the one in the top three I most hated traits in a person working with or for me. And talking about traits, I considered crucial to always have in my teams a "saboteur" engineer - the one who thoght, found, come up with all the way we could break a design, service, infra components, app, etc., when all the others were designing or operating for perfect or normal condition…

Love the "saboteur" approach. I honestly want to be one my own career in IT, but as you have rightfully conveyed, "hero attitude" is what gets you visibility!

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#172

Post by kshacker »

dfhgdfghdfgdf wrote: post #142
kshacker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did I say I code? I have been on the industry for 35 years. I have seen my share of technology evolutions and o have seen the work from a dozen different dimensions. If after all that time, I find the process painful, just trust me -- they can't change me, and I can't change them. You take the warts with the wins and move on. 2-3 bad weeks, 10 good weeks. Life moves on to next quarter. Complete CEO mindset :)

You heavily implied presentation preparation implies zero productivity. He tried to say this prep is also productive even if you personally don't or can't appreciate it.

Last comment and I will see myself out.

I meant my other productivity drops because I am not a natural presenter so even though I am rehearsing / editing for 2 hours a day, the presentation consumes me / overwhelms me that I can't even focus for the remaining 4 hours or 2 hours. Just do the bare minimum email processing, just survive. Everyone knows it. But by being in that zone of paralysis, I can still deliver a presentation. Sometimes good sometimes ok.

I have this need for the presentation content to reside in my memory cache and other work disrupts the cache quite badly.

But that's not a way to live. The other work stalled for 3 weeks.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#173

Post by order-matters »

friendzis wrote: post #128
atoav wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not need to come from the outside. If you're an underfunded IT department and your network has an issue twice a week, you will get that funding. If you're heroically obscuring the fact that things are falling apart you won't. That means even if you could somehow, heroically fix it, it isn't perceived as such if nobody ever felt the problem and saw you fix it. This is a pain signal. Some IT dude saying thin…

> This is a pain signal. Some IT dude saying things are crap in every meeting is not. More often than not it is some IT dude observing network crap-out once a month, performing analysis, noticing an upward trend and then saying in every meeting that things are crap and there will be issues twice a week in some time. > If you're an underfunded IT department and your network has an issue twice a week, you will get that…

IT doesnt control the funding so at that point its not an issue of awareness but a management decision to live with this problem and focus funding elsewhere

more often than not, many things in the business are on fire and underfunded at the same time. you can get recognition for your work without the problem being permanently solved the right way, and it may not result in more funding but peopel will think of you for new opportunities that pop up later as someone who is reliable.

if you dont think the recognition will happen and youre just burning out solving these problems then stop solving them. new problem pops up thats outside your job description, its not your problem. generally though if youre working for someone like that anything you do is a lose-lose

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#174

Post by bmacho »

eru wrote: post #159
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dunning Kruger effect suggests that the people who caused the pain are also those least likely to feel it.

Dunning Kruger's paper didn't even show the Dunning Kruger effect everyone loves.

In the original DK experiment they asked students after they had taken a test that where would their score end up compared to their classmates (which they had no knowledge of). Obviously they picked scores around the middle*

Which resulted in top students 'undervaluating themselves' and bottom students 'overestimating themselves'. Or under/overvaluating a random future variable that they don't have knowledge of, at least.

The original DK paper actually shows a positive correlation between the guesses and the test results: students are generally aware how they are among their peers, and smarter students guessed higher than studetns with less time to study on their hand.

This being said, the 'DK effect' is something people talk about, and it might exist, and it might be perceived by people. It's just that the original DK paper does not support it.

* another lesser talked problem with the DK paper is that people don't actually believe the answers they give, because the question is nonsensical.

If someone just takes a test, they won't think that "I'm sure I'll end up the 24% this time". Even if they are forced to anwser this question, even then they won't believe it, because that's not how random and future work. People are generally aware of about where they will perform (with positive correlation, in fact the original DK paper shows it) but they are not aware of results of specific, random future events, and they are not claiming that they know the results of specific, random future events, or believe it in their hearts.

DK paper tries to frame them as they were actually believing this, but they are not.

More to read at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#175

Post by t43562 »

I recognise almost every aspect of this document - it's exactly what's so intractable about the software business. This is why I think you do need to do some programming every now and again no matter what your level is because otherwise you cannot see what's happening and you'll be tempted into the "lazy developer" attribution.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#176

Post by hansbo »

k3liutZu wrote: post #121
fugaziboutit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte." ("I have made this longer than usual, only because I have not had the time to make it shorter.") Blaise Pascal

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

I read this in Leonard Nimoy's voice, from narrating Civilization IV.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#177

Post by RA_Fisher »

brianjlogan wrote: post #167
RA_Fisher wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Econometricians can solve it, bc we can create rigorous models that map causal inputs to output. It’s extremely advanced technology, though, and most CEOs would rather rent seek / camp than give up some decision-making power (and very few are even aware it’s possible).

Do you have any good sources for this I'd be interested in learning more

I used AI to unpack it a bit here: https://statwonk.com/econometricians-can-build-decision-engi...

I'd generally point to econometrics and statistics applied to business. The key activity is causal inference and then the context determines the mix of econo vs. stats required to help the org make high-quality decisions to increase output or make it more lucrative or higher-quality.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#178

Post by akudha »

keyle wrote: post #17

I've been in those companies where "struggling departments" ended up getting all the praises and raise in budgets the following quarter because of the heroic saves they did, and raising awareness on how important they are... For stuff they totally caused on themselves. Meanwhile, my perfectly purring department was struggling to keep the lights on. It's a serious problem in this industry due to the disconnect between…

Isn’t this a universal problem though, not just software industry? Even at home, if one kid just does his thing quietly but another kid is difficult, what do we say? “John has his problems but he is trying, we gotta encourage him”. While his brother gets no praise or attention for just doing his thing quietly without fuss.

When things run smoothly, very few people notice. When things break, everyone notices

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#179

Post by falsemyrmidon »

fsagx wrote: post #48
smath wrote: post #37

I'm looking for some data -- if anyone has it -- on the fraction of companies that are led (CEO) by a technical person, over the years/decades. I have the (anecdotal) impression that this fraction has been falling (stories like Boeing), but it would be cool to support or refute this with hard data. Anyone know where to find/assemble something like this? Also, if this trend is true, then why?

If this has been true, perhaps at some point the pendulum will swing back the other way. BTW the current CEO of Boeing is a mechanical engineer. https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/kelly-ortberg

After decades of infamous quality drops that have impacted their reputation and finally bottom line under non technical CEOs.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#180

Post by an0malous »

joelthelion wrote: post #115
Tsarp wrote: post #102

Ian Rush said it best: "It's best being a striker. Miss five, score the winner, you're a hero. The goalkeeper plays a blinder, lets one in, and he's a villain." Every place I've worked rewards the firefighter over the person who made sure nothing ever caught fire. And the worst part is the math is obvious to everyone except the people who set the incentives.

How would you set the incentives, though? Almost by definition, it's hard to reward things that aren't visible. Note that there is also the flip side of the coin, people who spend all their time worrying about things that never happen, so it's not like you can just reward a defensive attitude things are more complicated than that.

One basic example is not counting bugs as points in your ticket tracker. At my last job I had coworkers whose velocity was almost double everyone else’s but it was because they kept deploying and then fixing their own bugs.
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