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Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

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Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#171

Post by nozzlegear »

jubilanti wrote: post #54
inigyou wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They vibecoded it, and admitted as much. Once it was able to self-vibecode, that's all they did. That's why it's written in React and uses gigabytes of RAM as a chat client.

You say that as if somehow the trend for cross platform desktop apps to be ridiculously bloated bundles of browser overlays is new? What major cross platform app isn't based on Electron or Tauri? Slack, Discord, VS Code, Teams, Notion...

The ChatGPT app on macOS is native. Same for the Gemini app.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#172

Post by dbmikus »

Understand that it is annoying to spin up a heavyweight VM whenever running Claude Desktop, but I actually think per-app + agent virtualization is the future. Next version of an app is:

    1. micro VM
    2. agent on the VM
    3. software bundled into the VM
Then the agent is totally sandboxed at the hardware virtualization level. It can use the software tools on the VM or write its own. VM can control which software is "frozen" and which is open to agent modification. And VM can also control which services are exposed outside the VM through sockets, HTTP server, X window system, whatever

It's self-modifying apps that are sealed off from touching parts of the computer they shouldn't.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#173

Post by stouset »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #166
Hammershaft wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has hacker news lost it? Maps & Gmail & Search all have plenty of accumulating flaws... but they also completely defined their product category and today are among the most popular software products ever made.

"defined their product category" means it used to be outstanding, not that it currently is outstanding. "among the most popular" doesn't need either of those to be true.

As a concrete example, Windows defined the product category. And it is still the most popular desktop operating system in the world by far.

Few here would argue that it’s an outstanding product.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#174

Post by jstummbillig »

spott wrote: post #114
jstummbillig wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are Google products anything but outstanding in their categories? What are you comparing to?

Which products are outstanding in their categories? Gmail isn't outstanding, search isn't outstanding, maps isn't outstanding. They are all pretty par for the course. Google used to be outstanding... but I'm not sure of a single product they have that is outstanding (def: significantly better than the competition) anymore. On the other hand I rarely use any google products these days, so maybe I'm not the one to be j…

All of these are outstanding! In so far they are not singular or new anymore, well... If for the past ~20 years nobody has come up with something clearly better, then I would say that speaks to how outstanding the product that are being copied are to this day.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#175

Post by danudey »

xp84 wrote: post #129
spott wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which products are outstanding in their categories? Gmail isn't outstanding, search isn't outstanding, maps isn't outstanding. They are all pretty par for the course. Google used to be outstanding... but I'm not sure of a single product they have that is outstanding (def: significantly better than the competition) anymore. On the other hand I rarely use any google products these days, so maybe I'm not the one to be j…

I'm not a fan of Google, and also not attached to Apple or Microsoft, so this isn't me trying to stan for Google, but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better (and, by what metric(s) you're judging - code quality? stability? robust set of features?) -- for Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar, Maps, Classroom, YouTube. As far as I can tell, if judged by the mark…

The major differentiating factor that Google has had in every product category is that their products are free and you have to deal with ads (and they monitor your behavior for profiling you and your interests).

GMail and Google Maps were revolutionary when they came out, sure, but the vast majority of Google's products now are... fine? at best? And a lot of their "big products" were acquisitions that they absorbed in order to further the core goal of the business - to organize all the world's information and use it to serve ads to people.

Meanwhile, Google has a litany of products they've started internally, launched, ran for a while, and then let stagnate or canned entirely; anecdotally I've heard that this is because your bonuses at Google hinge on your ability to launch a product and not your ability to support a product, so it's beneficial to get something launched and then immediately leave to go launch another project rather than polish the one you just launched into something to be proud of.

I'm not sure if that's true, but it would certainly explain a lot; if Google launches something and it's bad or it doesn't click, they just give up on it. Google Wave, a half-dozen chat apps that I can think of, Stadia, and dozens of others. Things that Google launched, which had problems or didn't hit mass adoption instantly, and then just petered out and were retired with all of the time and energy and money put into them arguably wasted - products that people wanted, and wanted to succeed, but which weren't revolutionary successes at launch so they weren't worth further investment.

Meanwhile, they (and most of the industry) are pushing AI for some reason despite the fact that almost no one actually wants AI to be the only way that people interact with information.

This all reinforces what I've been saying about Google for decades: they're not creating things that users want to use, they're creating things that they want users to use. Sometimes those things align, but when they don't then it's not worth further investment (except, apparently, AI).

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#177

Post by sudosteph »

dbmikus wrote: post #172

Understand that it is annoying to spin up a heavyweight VM whenever running Claude Desktop, but I actually think per-app + agent virtualization is the future. Next version of an app is: 1. micro VM 2. agent on the VM 3. software bundled into the VM Then the agent is totally sandboxed at the hardware virtualization level. It can use the software tools on the VM or write its own. VM can control which software is "froze…

Yep, I've been using a local vm-centric agent setup for about 3 months, and it works great. I think there is also value in the fact that with a local VM, you can have the same public IP address, so you're not relying on an EC2 EIP that may be blacklisted somewhere.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#178

Post by rustystump »

xahrepap wrote: post #168
xp84 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of Google, and also not attached to Apple or Microsoft, so this isn't me trying to stan for Google, but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better (and, by what metric(s) you're judging - code quality? stability? robust set of features?) -- for Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar, Maps, Classroom, YouTube. As far as I can tell, if judged by the mark…

I think it’s a major feature gap that Gmail (paid or free) cannot create filters on headers. I also can’t do wildcard filters on “to” or “from”. For example, in my GApps I have it set up to route all emails not associated with a specific user to my primary user. So that it’s easier to make throwaway emails. I want to filter all to:`X.X@domain.tld` to a certain folder. No can do. It just feels restricted.

This so much this. Gmail overall is pretty meh and then it has these stupid footguns that make it awful.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#179

Post by aeyes »

Hammershaft wrote: post #151
spott wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which products are outstanding in their categories? Gmail isn't outstanding, search isn't outstanding, maps isn't outstanding. They are all pretty par for the course. Google used to be outstanding... but I'm not sure of a single product they have that is outstanding (def: significantly better than the competition) anymore. On the other hand I rarely use any google products these days, so maybe I'm not the one to be j…

Has hacker news lost it? Maps & Gmail & Search all have plenty of accumulating flaws... but they also completely defined their product category and today are among the most popular software products ever made.

They are popular because they are free.

I have to use Gmail at work and it is just terrible.

Re: Claude Desktop spawns 1.8 GB Hyper-V VM on every launch, even for chat-only use

#180

Post by rustystump »

xp84 wrote: post #129
spott wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which products are outstanding in their categories? Gmail isn't outstanding, search isn't outstanding, maps isn't outstanding. They are all pretty par for the course. Google used to be outstanding... but I'm not sure of a single product they have that is outstanding (def: significantly better than the competition) anymore. On the other hand I rarely use any google products these days, so maybe I'm not the one to be j…

I'm not a fan of Google, and also not attached to Apple or Microsoft, so this isn't me trying to stan for Google, but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better (and, by what metric(s) you're judging - code quality? stability? robust set of features?) -- for Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar, Maps, Classroom, YouTube. As far as I can tell, if judged by the mark…

Funny. Search is the only thing that is outstanding as it is the big revenue arm, that and youtube.

The last time i tried using gmaps i got ads and the thing could figure out where i was on the roads. It was comical as i always remembered google maps being better than apple. Today tho, apple beats them hands down.

Googles products that do not get cancelled are pretty mediocre in todays market. They can build useful things but if it doesnt have ads in it, it gets axed

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