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Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

newscientist.com

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Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#171

Post by nozzlegear »

joe_mamba wrote: post #153
sterlind wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war crime laws were invented as a legal theater for victorious powers to persecute the losers after WW2 with a veneer of legality, for imperialist superpowers to bully the small third countries who refuse to play ball, not for something superpowers to actually abide by themselves I recommend you watch Judgment at Nuremberg - the 1961 film, not the 2025 one (I've seen both.) the Nuremberg Trials were very much t…

[flagged]

Who on earth would you expect to have been unbiased about World War II and the holocaust in 1961?

> written, directed and produced by jews

Really weird thing to look for and point out.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#172

Post by delichon »

hartbook wrote: post #97
delichon wrote: post #31

This was back in 2026, before they released the Dredd series for civilian applications with onboard due processing and agents for prosecution, defense, judge, jury and executioner with millisecond response times, drastically reducing price per perpetrator.

you got me checking my calendar app

Oh, sorry. I didn't know that the "past" feature now sends comments back in time. That needs a confirmation pop up. It could really fuck up a timeline.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#173

Post by nradov »

namegulf wrote: post #152
delichon wrote: post #31

This was back in 2026, before they released the Dredd series for civilian applications with onboard due processing and agents for prosecution, defense, judge, jury and executioner with millisecond response times, drastically reducing price per perpetrator.

Back in 2026? Are we living in an alternate universe?

The future is now.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#174

Post by nradov »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #24
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #21

A few thoughts. First, I advise a modicum of skepticism to be retained in the face of such news. Ukraine is, after all, in the middle of an existential crisis and must take every advantage it can, even if it's just scaring Russian invaders further (I bet both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are already pretty scared of drones). Additionally: "“There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothi…

> If Ukraine could deploy actual Terminator robots to the front line it would do it in a heartbeat. Completely false. They are beholden to their allies. Ukraine could also reach Moscow with missiles, why doesn't it? It could build a nuclear bomb in 6 months, if not 6 weeks, they have the capabilities, why doesn't it? It's not so simple.

What an ignorant comment. Ukraine has attacked Moscow many times with drones and cruise missiles. And good luck to them, I hope they destroy Moscow completely.

https://abcnews.com/amp/International/ukrainian-drones-targe...

Ukraine is already using unmanned combat ground vehicles. They're not too far away from building autonomous weapons similar to those in some of the Terminator movies, although they probably won't be humanoid form factor.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#175

Post by namuol »

maxdo wrote: post #105
namuol wrote: post #94

> “We just launch it and we know everything will be dead – everything that will be found there in this particular area will be dead,” says Kokhanovskyy. “There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothing… Everything it sees will be killed.” This is a clear war crime. We don’t need to update any international laws, do we? This is by definition indiscriminate, like landmines or chemical weap…

Check the reality https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/YW1ldcsYwF That area is a wasteland . No one lives walk there among civilians with a rare exception more over drive. You probably do not understand what Russia turned these areas to. It was the most populated area in Ukraine . Now it’s an empty land .

Oh I understand and am sympathetic/stand in solidarity with Ukrainian fighters, but war crimes against war criminals are still war crimes.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#176

Post by doctorpangloss »

nradov wrote: post #174
doctorpangloss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Ukraine could deploy actual Terminator robots to the front line it would do it in a heartbeat. Completely false. They are beholden to their allies. Ukraine could also reach Moscow with missiles, why doesn't it? It could build a nuclear bomb in 6 months, if not 6 weeks, they have the capabilities, why doesn't it? It's not so simple.

What an ignorant comment. Ukraine has attacked Moscow many times with drones and cruise missiles. And good luck to them, I hope they destroy Moscow completely. https://abcnews.com/amp/International/ukrainian-drones-targe... Ukraine is already using unmanned combat ground vehicles. They're not too far away from building autonomous weapons similar to those in some of the Terminator movies, although they probably won't…

ukraine has never used a long range missile against civilian targets in Moscow

its home built Flamingo has been reportedly used only a few times since february of this year in long range, as recently as just yesterday

the US and EU restricts ukraine's ability to use ATACMS or SCALP in any long range way

of course, US and EU are discussing withdrawing some kinds of vital war support, which is my point. These are the issues that are related: long range weapons use against deep targets in Russia means that allies withdraw support. and how could it not be that case? They could have developed Flamingo years ago when this war began, in 2014, why didn't they? there's nothing ignorant about this.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#177

Post by namuol »

ak217 wrote: post #108
namuol wrote: post #94

> “We just launch it and we know everything will be dead – everything that will be found there in this particular area will be dead,” says Kokhanovskyy. “There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothing… Everything it sees will be killed.” This is a clear war crime. We don’t need to update any international laws, do we? This is by definition indiscriminate, like landmines or chemical weap…

It's nice to have the luxury of deciding which of the horrible choices Ukrainians face are war crimes. But by that measure, a Grad MLRS is just as much of a war crime. Everything in the grid square it obliterates will also be dead. (For those who don't know, the Grad is the most produced MLRS ever, and the Russian army's weapon of choice for indiscriminately bombarding enemy territory)

Yeah this is a fair point. I’m not making the judgement in this specific case as much as I am making the judgement in the general case of deploying autonomous killing machines like this.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#178

Post by dwd »

stymaar wrote: post #60
robotresearcher wrote: post #26

We've had loitering munitions that choose their own target autonomously for a long time, for example anti-tank weapons that climb up after being released from a plane or helicopter then sit on a parachute until spotting one or more tanks and firing warheads at them. The superficial new thing here is the exact quadcopter form factor, but the significance is the new price point. You bet the loitering anti-tank weapon c…

> but you unwittingly engage them rather than them engaging you. Directional anti-tank mines are a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARM_1_mine

Or the Russian POM-3, scattered by aerial deployment, detects vibrations before bounding and detonating in the air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POM-3_mine

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#179

Post by dr_dshiv »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #91
dr_dshiv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norbert Wiener’s cybernetics was based on automated killing — which he beautifully disavowed in peacetime [1]. Which historically is one of the main reasons we think about “Artificial Intelligence” instead of cybernetics (Wiener kind of pissed off the defense dept). [1] “A Scientist Rebels,” 1947 http://lanl-the-back-story.blogspot.com/2013/08/a-scientist-...

> Which historically is one of the main reasons we think about “Artificial Intelligence” instead of cybernetics (Wiener kind of pissed off the defense dept). Cybernetics and artificial intelligence are two distinct fields, though? I have friends with degrees in both, it's not some long lost alternative name for AI (though we're unlikely to see something like Project Cybersyn using cybernetics today instead of some ov…

Cybernetics is a precursor to AI and has a different intellectual tradition. Is it a long lost alternative name for AI? Kind of. I mean, if you look at how Sutton and Norvig define AI systems, it’s just goal directed agents with sensors and actuators.

That said, yes, they are different fields and traditions. Cybernetics is much broader, because it studies feedback control systems in natural/biological phenomena as well as the design of artificially intelligent systems.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#180

Post by dr_dshiv »

kridsdale1 wrote: post #158
michaelt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the rise of modern LLMs, when both AI and cybernetics were just futurists’ speculation, some people saw parallels. For example, thinking humans wouldn’t be displaced by super intelligent machines, but would instead be augmented by them cybernetically, becoming super intelligent while still having a human soul and body.

Sometimes I feel rather superhuman when my meat head commands my meat hands to invoke Claude on my iPhone. I shouldn’t have to weld to my flesh to be called a cybernetic organism.

It’s like our exocortex
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