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Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

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Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#171

Post by tokioyoyo »

akramachamarei wrote: post #155
tokioyoyo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier to say. Your child will just despise you for willingly making their school life hell.

I went through high school until almost 16 with no phone whatsoever. Twas fine. I remember peers around me for the most part had smartphones at the start of high school, maybe even some in middle school? I don't want to say exactly when this was for privacy, but I don't see why phoneless school living could be so disastrous. But then, I am a bit of an oddball and introvert.

I also grew up without a smartphone, but “stuff that kids talk about” happens online now. Wasn’t the case even 10-15 years ago, since you could still be part of conversations without a phone.

But yeah, I support the school-wide smarthphone bans. Not uncommon in Tokyo.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#172

Post by tokioyoyo »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #137
tokioyoyo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier to say. Your child will just despise you for willingly making their school life hell.

I'm living it. They don't despise me, yet. My youngest just spent a rainy afternoon reading books, drawing pictures, and is now breaking out a boardgame, the horror! Hopefully they grow up well adjusted and come to appreciate the sacrifice. Cell phone and social media addictions arn't inevitabilities they are choices.

I really hope it goes well! I’m in favour of smartphone bans, but I can see how it sucks when you’re the only one without access to it. I was a teenager once after all.

That being said, I can’t imagine myself drawing pictures, or playing boardgames every day with my friends when I was 13. Wouldn’t be happy if my parents didn’t let me play WoW/AoM with my friends. Obviously everyone is different, and I’m in no place to say you’re doing it wrong. Just trying to say how it would suck if I couldn’t do something that all my peers are allowed to do.

This all is the main reason why I support nation-wide social media bans. Would solve the issue if no kids were allowed.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#173

Post by pseudalopex »

vorpalhex wrote: post #112
Tade0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Co-working space coworker went once to a school to teach kids about online safety and such. One of the exercises was to check out what you can and can't do with a locked-down smartphone. Several minutes later the kids figured out how to bypass parental controls using ChatGPT and the method spread like wildfire. I recall defying my father's orders regularly. Teenagers who set their mind to something can be amazingly p…

"If I see you on social media, I'm grounding you for two weeks with no phone." You can't fix a behavior issue with tech, just like you can't fix your computer by being good.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48444567

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#174

Post by DANmode »

stavros wrote: post #7
rho138 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty certain they understand that and are offering a workable solution instead of just repiping “age tech bad.”

You can't offer a workable solution to an excuse. Nobody pushing this wants to protect the children, therefore offering a solution that will protect the children is irrelevant.

Some of the citizens and nonprofits pushing it do,

and that’s what complicates the “debate” and “conversation”.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#175

Post by gigel82 »

Jzush wrote: post #151

People are worried about tech companies collecting data on minors, so they ban tech companies from collecting data on minors. Tech companies rally behind "Age Verification" laws so they can collect data on minors again under the guise of protecting minors. The people who don't understand why that's a bad thing count it as a win and we're right back where we started.

We're not right back where we started, we're in far far worse place where all online activity of every single person is de-anonymized (associated with their full legal ID). Tech companies are salivating at the thought.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#176

Post by knome »

pixl97 wrote: post #150
knome wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a parent. Be the bad guy if you feel it's right. Wanting the government to levy a society-wide information tracking system because you don't want your child to be upset at you is incredibly selfish.

I mean, we already have corporations levying a society-wide information tracking system that they just sell the government information from, so there's that. With this said, if the government doesn't ban cellphones/tablets at school all of your blocking kids at home from electronics is fucking useless. My daughter pulled this crap as a teenager where we banned her from social media... so she got an old tablet from a…

Of course they pull that kind of crap. Teens are often plenty smart, just generally naive to consequences.

They'll do this kind of stuff even if we require spybotting the entire internet. Kids already lean on sketchy older siblings or friends or stolen/fake credentials to acquire booze illegally. Getting them to sign up for and verify online accounts would be next. Or paying/doing favors for random sketchy adults. Or buying them online, as the original article mentioned.

Anything more than the equivalent of "mark this device account as being PG/PG-13/Adult" isn't buying more security for kids, just more intrusion into the lives of everyone else, while pushing access into a black market that will create new dangers for the kids entering into it.

A device flag enabling an http header indicating a device account is "PG-13" could still allow a kid to sign up to non-adult sites online, but then have appropriate restrictions on usage etc applied to the accounts. Kids can access their friends, maybe the media cuts off during school hours, but they don't feel the need to escape the system, and are more likely to stay within it.

Requiring invasive overbearing authoritarian systems be put in place with the excuse of saving the children won't accomplish the stated goal, just the unstated one.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#178

Post by Jzush »

gigel82 wrote: post #175
Jzush wrote: post #151

People are worried about tech companies collecting data on minors, so they ban tech companies from collecting data on minors. Tech companies rally behind "Age Verification" laws so they can collect data on minors again under the guise of protecting minors. The people who don't understand why that's a bad thing count it as a win and we're right back where we started.

We're not right back where we started, we're in far far worse place where all online activity of every single person is de-anonymized (associated with their full legal ID). Tech companies are salivating at the thought.

True, why settle for less data when they can justify getting it all.

We need a law that prevents representatives without a demonstrable understanding of a subject matter from casting votes for stuff they clearly don't understand. Can't check your email or program a microwave clock? No voting on Internet bills. Can't change your own oil? No voting on automotive bills, etc.

Now a lot of people would immediately say "Oh, but then nothing will get done!" and my response is, okay, good. After a few years of nothing getting done people will realize they need to start voting in people who know about the stuff the people care about instead of people who will listen to whatever a lobbyist tells them.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#179

Post by iso1631 »

EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #153
SoftTalker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good to me. Why didn't Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, and the porn industry do this 15 years ago? Why did they pretend to have no responsibility for the content they were publishing? Why did they think clicking "Yes" on an "I am 18 years of age" popup was sufficient?

> Why did they think clicking "Yes" on an "I am 18 years of age" popup was sufficient? Because that is the only acceptable solution and it doesn't violate user privacy. Other than off-by-default parental controls that are optionally enabled.

Asking if you want to enable parental controls on first setup seems acceptable to me.

> Because that is the only acceptable solution

And this is how you get locked down computing

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#180

Post by Scroll_Swe »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #162
Scroll_Swe wrote: post #20

It's not about the children, never was. The goal is to use one ID system for everything. I sound like Alex Jones, but we already have a system for bank login, and other trusted identity login. They want to use this for everything.

This is already reality in Finland. Want to schedule a doctor's appointment? Bank ID. Want to pay your taxes? Ban ID. Want to check your pension? Bank ID. The worst part of it is that a significant swathe of the population does not have access to bank ID, so they can't access these services anymore. It's a kafkaesque dystopia that is going places that I never thought would be possible.

I am Swedish so I know.

BankID I like as it is now for authority stuff and I understand its need. The alternative would be everyone rolling their own auth and MFA, would be bad.

Now imagine all social media tied to your BankID. This is their wet dream.

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