American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn • Hacker News Board

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#171

Post by crossbody » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:31 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #149

crossbody wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your worry based on vibes? Because statistics clearly show median real wealth growing rapidly: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

That's money and not wealth and its a flow not stock and denominated in something that can depreciate, has it even been priced correctly ? I grant you that it is very hard to measure ownership of (wealth generating) assets, hidden behind legal obfuscations. Lorenz curve [0], GEI [1], Gini index of owned wealth generating assets would be the right thing to measure to see how understand one's share of the pie. But an e…

My bad, wrong chart (it's in real terms though)

Here is net wealth increasing for all, let's celebrate: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1962-_Net_personal_w...

My point is that the pie is growing and all are benefitting. Yes, rich may be getting more but not at the expense of poorer people as their wealth is increasing too. It's rather unfortunate but it seems that the pies grows fastest (and poor benefit from that growth too) when wealth is allowed to accumulate and yes that means more inequality but if all get better off, that's the price we have to pay for faster growth of total pie

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#172

Post by Nursie » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:31 AM UTC

hparadiz wrote: post #132

Nursie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I watched them become millionares by simply getting up and working hard. If it was that easy, every office cleaner or bank clerk would be a millionaire. > living in literally the best time ever to be a human being Sure, but we're also watching the rise of a new oligarchy, and their latest innovation appears poised to put a lot of people out of work, making their lives materially worse.

It literally is. People just have no discipline or skills with money. Go on the fire subreddit. 25k saved per year is a million after twenty years with a modest very conservative amount. And if you can double that with a spouse you're looking at a million in only ten years. People who stretch that to 20-25 years end up with 3-5 million.

Median net wage in 2023 the US is $43,222 as per https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

You're talking about median earners putting away more than half of their pay.

If we look at full time workers that may go up to about $1200 per week or (after federal income tax) about $57k per year - https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf

So you're still looking at 43% of every pay packet. And 50% of full-time workers will be paid less than that.

This is beyond discipline and much more than simply getting up and working hard, and more like living in self-imposed poverty, putting on hold anything resembling building a life, buying a house etc.

The fact is putting away $25k a year is the reserve of the privileged, not something achievable just by getting up and working hard for most people.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#173

Post by intended » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:32 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #143

andyferris wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends how they got wealthy. Did they steal everything outright? Someone is worse off in that transaction. (Or everyone a little bit worse off if it’s government grift). Did they create all that value themselves? Might be fine - positive sum games do exist. Did they create some system where a bunch of money flows just to them based on the labour of others? Maybe it depends on the details, like how much the labo…

[flagged]

Yet theft occurs.

Coercion occurs.

The market is held up by the enforcement of rules, and the US has spent several decades loosening the rules and defanging its watchdogs.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#174

Post by 305superuser » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:33 AM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #167

randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

> wealth inequality Can you explain what is wrong with people having different levels of wealth? Or asked differently, if it is bad, should every individual have the exact same wealth?

Like anything some is good too much is bad, a gradient work for a complex society, a brutal difference like kings and dark ages poor eventually bring collapse

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#175

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:33 AM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #29

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with it? It shows the article, with a little banner on top, showing when it was captured. Doesn't mess with scrolling, what's not to like?

Well, for one, it wants me to scan a QR code as a captcha.

That is an issue you can pin on Google:

https://reclaimthenet.org/google-broke-recaptcha-for-de-goog...> (8 May 2026).

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48067119>

Though yes, Archive.is have continued using reCaptcha despite this recent change.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#176

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:34 AM UTC

themafia wrote: post #37

caymanjim wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one, it wants me to scan a QR code as a captcha.

I've never once had that happen. It's always straight to the unrolled article.

See: https://cybernews.com/privacy/google-qr-code-recaptcha-requi...>

Or my earlier reply to this subthread.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#177

Post by srean » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:35 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #166

srean wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grain prices are today set by derivative markets that have very little connection to actual produce.

Watch what happens to prices when the supply goes up or down. Talk to any farmer about it.

Too much latency in information flow. Too high a variance.

Worse is that one can double bet on the same underlying asset on different exchanges (like taking out multiple insurance policies on the same car with payout on one policy not necessarily invalidating other policies). This grossly distorts prices.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#178

Post by pixelatedindex » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:37 AM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #50

America is a communist nation since the majority of the populace holds the majority of the productive capacity in joint ownership

Seems more like an aristocracy where the productive capacity is owned by the billionaire class

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#179

Post by srean » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:37 AM UTC

crossbody wrote: post #157

srean wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way is to learn from what Norway is doing right and see what can be replicated. Norway is not a sole example though, just a prominent one.

Can we? Do we even know the counterfactual? Perhaps Norway would have been 2x richer (incl. their poorest people) if they implemented ultra aggressive libertarian policies. The best we can do is learn from natural expriments like Finland and Estonia being about as rich before ww2, then by 90s the gap got massive since one was forced adopt more redistributive policies. Same with North / South Korea. Here we have at le…

Counterfactuals no, but one can make good-faith scientific attempts. We don't because we are locked by ideologies.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#180

Post by intended » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:38 AM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #135

sevenzero wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Educate yourself" is almost always a shibboleth that the speaker of the phrase actually doesn't even know how to explain it to someone. It is a phrase of moral superiority and is not interested in whether the other person actually educates themselves or not. Or they might educate themselves and come to the opposite conclusion as you, in which case, maybe you should have educated (or indoctrinated) them first. https:…

The user in question, begins with assumptions on how wealth and markets work that do not match anything I know of in economics.

At one point they say that in a market economy there is no theft.

At another point they say that wealth concentration does not occur.

To begin to explain how they are working, I would have to invest in understanding the specific ideological framework they are using. Then figure out how to translate normal terms into their model.

This is a degree of care and effort I spend on people I love and care deeply about.

There is a threshold after which “educate yourself” is a genuine and reasonable statement, because the average person does not have the above average capability required to disentangle the motivated reasoning of a commenter.