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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#171

Post by nradov »

jleyank wrote: post #118
bigyabai wrote: post #4

Saab makes excellent AWACS systems, this strikes me as a good choice. It'll be interesting to see if Canada also invests in the Gripen long-term, as a replacement for the aging CF-18 fleet.

I think the F-16 would have been a good bird for Canada's needs. The F-18 had the advantage of two engines, which strikes me as a good thing in the Arctic. If these two are off the table, things like the Saab are reasonable. There's only 2-3 countries one needs stealth fighters for, and 30-40-ish won't matter in such cases.

The F-16 lacks the range to operate effectively in Canada. They would need to load it up with multiple conformal or external fuel tanks, which wrecks performance, and would still need extensive tanker support.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#172

Post by carlosjobim »

khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

> * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus.

This is due to sanctions. There is no trade between Russia and the USA to put tariffs on.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#173

Post by petcat »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #165
petcat wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas has entertained the idea of seceding for 150 years. And they would be a G7 country if they did. But they would have to fight a war to do it. USA already went through this once. The only thing really stopping Alberta from leaving is whether or not BC, Ontario, and Quebec are willing to fight a war to stop it. And that gets a lot more complicated if the US also wants Alberta to go independent....

The instant Alberta secedes from Canada, the Indigenous would secede all unceded Treaty land from the independent Alberta. Which includes all of the tar sands, the source of Alberta's wealth. Canada might not be willing to fight, but the Indigenous probably are.

> but the Indigenous probably are

None of this matters in this context. The indiginous people literally do not matter. It's bad, but it's just how it is when white Europeans start fighting over land in North America. We have 3 centuries of evidence.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#174

Post by SecretDreams »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #103
e40 wrote: post #97

Over the last few months we've seen announcements of shifts from US-based supply chains to non-US-supply chains. As an American, I think this is prudent, based on what has happened in the last year and change. The US is no longer a reliable partner and this is what you do when that happens. 100 years from now, the last 15 months will be written about in no uncertain terms: this administration has loaded many footguns…

Look around you. What products do you own with a US supply chain and what has a Chinese supply chain.

The supply chain of relevance is the critical software, infrastructure to run it, and ability to remotely kill it if an ally stops being an ally.

Nobody cares if their dollar store trinket was made overseas. And nobody would buy it if it was made in America because that same trinket would cost 5x.

People barely even care about their privacy these days, it seems.

But governments still seem to care about their military independence in the rare event they are at odds with an ally.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#176

Post by swader999 »

petcat wrote: post #135
dessimus wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then by your arguments above, you're good with California leaving since they'd be a G6 nation on their own? Because as you would might say: I'm sure this Canadian government would love to see an "independent" California.

Texas has entertained the idea of seceding for 150 years. And they would be a G7 country if they did. But they would have to fight a war to do it. USA already went through this once. The only thing really stopping Alberta from leaving is whether or not BC, Ontario, and Quebec are willing to fight a war to stop it. And that gets a lot more complicated if the US also wants Alberta to go independent....

We already have a clause in our constitution to allow for orderly withdrawal from Canada. We'd have to resolve the first Nations angle which would probably be more of a hurdle.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#177

Post by carlosjobim »

Countries always use the threat of buying Swedish war planes as a bargaining chip to get a better deal from the US, or whoever they're really going to buy from. So these news are best believed when everything is signed, sealed, and delivered. This has been going on for at least 20 years with SAAB fighters.

From the article: "Saab is also in the running to sell Canada some of its Gripen fighters. Canada has a deal to buy 88 F-35 jets from Lockheed-Martin, but last year, after the US slapped tariffs on key Canadian imports, Carney asked the military to investigate whether it could cut back the order and buy some planes from another manufacturer."

Ask yourself: Why would a nation spill military secrets like this to the media? They're trying to put pressure on the US. Those Gripen fighters are in all likelihood staying in Sweden after all is said and done.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#178

Post by asdff »

khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

What is stopping the Swedes from electing a jackass? They seem smart for now? It happens in Europe too. All these weaknesses are liable for any country in a democratic model where executive is controlled via popular vote. Population is trivial to manipulate. This is the new world. Running to Sweden doesn't change the underlying issue of the ease of manipulating an electorate using technological affordances to capture a nation from the inside without a single shot fired.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#179

Post by advisedwang »

hnburnsy wrote: post #24

Boeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog…

Do military versions of aircraft use the same production lines, and the same production queue, as commercial aircraft?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#180

Post by usrusr »

carlosjobim wrote: post #172
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

> * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. This is due to sanctions. There is no trade between Russia and the USA to put tariffs on.

Makes me wonder what the penguins of Heard and McDonald Islands would say about this
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