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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#171

Post by basch »

bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

>Seed oils probably aren't ideal

Except they are. A refined monounsaturated fat is in the upper tier of perfect calorie. It makes a lot of sense for omega-9's to be a major part of caloric consumption. The omega-3 and omega-6 when fresh and uncooked are also unnecessary demonized by the idea that they are immediately rancid. Like many things the problems arise from the implementation or how they are used, not the chemical itself.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#172

Post by newdee »

dukeyukey wrote: post #156
perrygeo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

The sugar you get from fruit is also accompanied by fiber, water and other nutrients. Also harder to overeat and generally gets released into the bloodstream more slowly. I think the argument here is to eat less (highly) processed food in favour of whole foods.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#173

Post by CyberDildonics »

dukeyukey wrote: post #156
perrygeo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

They didn't say "added sugar" they just said sugar. If you want to avoid sugar, you have to realize that fruit does contain sugar (fructose is the culprit here) and it isn't always healthy.

If you think of the specialty oranges like cuties and halos, they are loaded with sugar, that's why they taste so good.

Apples and bananas still won't help you lose weight. Tomatoes have much less sugar and could actually be helpful to be less hungry without many calories.

There is no easy way out, you can't just eat a bunch of sugar loaded fruit and think the fiber will totally protect you or that because it is "fruit" it's healthy.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#174

Post by lithocarpus »

SoftTalker wrote: post #101
lithocarpus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much olive oil is not refined or ultra processed, but in the US market, 25%+ is. According to https://www.imarcgroup.com/united-states-olive-oil-market 10% of olive oil in the US market is refined using the same hexane process as canola or soybean oil, and another 15% is refined using other chemical processes. It's not a seed oil but for many people concerned about ultra processed food including refined oils, it's no…

Avocado oil is good for high temperature sautéing, Is there anything to look for on the label to tell what refining process is used for an olive oil? There are so many different brands now that I suspect some of them are just different labels on the same product.

Technically extra virgin olive oil should not be refined.

I'm always a little dubious because of the financial incentive to cut unrefined oil with some amount of cheaper refined oil, but I don't have any idea how much this actually is done with olive oil.

The label usually won't say what the process was in my experience, but you can look into what processes are used for refined olive oil. Just avoid refined oil entirely. And if I see "olive oil" as an ingredient in something or at a not-high-quality restaurant, I'd assume it's refined.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#175

Post by basch »

anon84873628 wrote: post #119
sinuhe69 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I don't know exactly how long people have been eating oil from olive, flax seed, sesame, coconut or palm nut, but I believe not under 6000–7000 years. But yeah, not the stuff we eat today.

To add, sunflower seed use predated maíz in some parts of North America, and mustard oil goes back to the Indus Valley Civilization. Yes, the extraction of these oils is "novel" just like factory farms are novel. As the article explains, it is the ultra-processed food products that are the problem, not the seed oil ingredients.

There is also sunflower oil and high oleic sunflower oil, the latter, which after refinement is incredibly heat and shelf stable, and is essentially pure omega-9 monounsaturated fat.

The anti refinement process perspective is discounting that the end result is the perfect fat.

A similar thing can be said about hydrolyzed collagen with a little tryptophan added.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#176

Post by CyberDildonics »

stringfood wrote: post #134
perrygeo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

wonder which is worse sugar or alcohol, 2 drinks a day vs 2 cans of coke a day

Probably alcohol, but they will both make you overweight, alcohol is metabolized in a similiar way.

When you see how much sugar it takes to make alcohol it starts to make sense.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#177

Post by SoftTalker »

lithocarpus wrote: post #174
SoftTalker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avocado oil is good for high temperature sautéing, Is there anything to look for on the label to tell what refining process is used for an olive oil? There are so many different brands now that I suspect some of them are just different labels on the same product.

Technically extra virgin olive oil should not be refined. I'm always a little dubious because of the financial incentive to cut unrefined oil with some amount of cheaper refined oil, but I don't have any idea how much this actually is done with olive oil. The label usually won't say what the process was in my experience, but you can look into what processes are used for refined olive oil. Just avoid refined oil entir…

I'm not sure I've ever seen olive oil at the supermarket that didn't have "Extra Virgin" in the labeling. I'll try to remember to look closer next time I'm shopping for it.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#178

Post by dukeyukey »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #173
dukeyukey wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

They didn't say "added sugar" they just said sugar. If you want to avoid sugar, you have to realize that fruit does contain sugar (fructose is the culprit here) and it isn't always healthy. If you think of the specialty oranges like cuties and halos, they are loaded with sugar, that's why they taste so good. Apples and bananas still won't help you lose weight. Tomatoes have much less sugar and could actually be helpf…

I'm not trying to lose weight, and I've never knowingly bought a specialty orange. Sugar is in basically every plant food, and saying "give up all sugar" means going carnivore plus eggs and a select few dairy products.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#179

Post by ungreased0675 »

fabian2k wrote: post #5

The media and the scientific community are not set up for the situation where cranks with absurdly unscientific views are at the top of the major scientific and health authorities. RFK Jr. still gets too much benefit of the doubt for his initiatives when it is obvious that he is opposed to science and has views about health that are just outright dangerous. And we have the usual problem with this administration that…

The reason RFK resonated with people is because the highly credentialed experts were not producing favorable outcomes. Results have to matter, right? We’ll see how successful (or not) RFK’s policies are, but let’s not revise history to where things were great right before he came in and ruined everything.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#180

Post by watwut »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #173
dukeyukey wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

They didn't say "added sugar" they just said sugar. If you want to avoid sugar, you have to realize that fruit does contain sugar (fructose is the culprit here) and it isn't always healthy. If you think of the specialty oranges like cuties and halos, they are loaded with sugar, that's why they taste so good. Apples and bananas still won't help you lose weight. Tomatoes have much less sugar and could actually be helpf…

Yeah we all need an eating disorder and be afraid to eat apples. And worry about loosing weight regardless of how healthy and fit we actually are.
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