Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada • Hacker News Board

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#171

Post by bawolff » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

jszymborski wrote: post #89

nonethewiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? I would assume you can't just decide to leave. EDIT: oh, there is a process. thats the Clarity Act. This seems extremely surprising - I've never heard of this sort of thing before with any other country.

It's a result of the second Quebec referendum. The Clarity Act may appear like it facilitates leaving the federation, but many critics (among them federalist and sovereigntists) believe that the law is too vague as it give the House of Commons the responsibility to determine "whether a clear majority had expressed itself". What that means in numerical terms? Nobody knows. Further the House of Commons has the right to…

> the law is too vague as it give the House of Commons the responsibility to determine "whether a clear majority had expressed itself"

If it really came down to it, i think it would be the supreme court that decides.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#172

Post by toast0 » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:03 PM UTC

cf100clunk wrote: post #98

Some numbers to consider: ~465,000 legally verified signatories to the federalist petition to declare Alberta permanently part of Canada ~360,000 status First Nations persons within Alberta ~330,000 legally unverified signatories to the separatist petition to hold a referendum to separate from Canada First Nations have successfully argued in court that as consultations with them are required by the Canadian Constitut…

I see from other comments that there's some concern over the validity of the signatures. But comparing the number of signatures on competiting petitions doesn't tell us much. I assume signature gathering in Alberta shares some common ideas with places I've lived... If you want something on the ballot you have a minimum number of signatures to gather, maybe another tier that enables a faster process, and you want to collect some number beyond that because some signatures will be found invalid, but after that there's no reason to continue collecting.

> First Nations have successfully argued in court that as consultations with them are required by the Canadian Constitution, no such consultations had even been suggested by separatists.

IMHO as an outside observer, if the current question is 'should we commence the legal process to have a binding referrendum', having consultations now is inappropriate. They would be part of the process to have a binding referrendum and so they must either be done or not after the results of this referrendum.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#173

Post by bawolff » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:04 PM UTC

cf100clunk wrote: post #74

nish__ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a thing because Quebec has tried to separate before.

Not a vote to separate. Quebec only tried to win a referendum giving the Province the authority from voters to approach the federal government with negotiations to achieve separation. Its more than a pedantic difference.

Part of the reason the clarity act is called the clarity act, was the belief the referendum question was intentionally unclear to trick people into voting for it.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#174

Post by bawolff » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:07 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #12

opjjf wrote: post #4

Investigate and imprison the people who are pushing this because of money received from the US.

For what crime?

Allegedly they have taken money from americans or maybe russians. It is generally a crime to take foreign money as part of a political campaign.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#175

Post by kylehotchkiss » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:13 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #78

With all the turmoil in US and other parts of the world I was completely unaware Albertans want to leave. > Smith acknowledged some of those concerns on Thursday, arguing that the federal government has tried to "move towards a more centralised American-style system" and is infringing on provincial jurisdiction. Ah interesting. I always thought US is rather decentralized with each state with its own government and la…

> Ah interesting. I always thought US is rather decentralized with each state with its own government and laws and such

Maybe before being president was a daily ego boost in taking over the news

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#176

Post by reaperducer » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:13 PM UTC

dismalaf wrote: post #148

cf100clunk wrote: post #113

A related issue is whether, or to what extent, a seceded entity can itself be subject to secession. This concern came up in Quebec when Cree and other groups suggested they'd drop out of post-separation Quebec and ''rejoin'' Canada. Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta sep…

> Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta separatists would face the same challenges and take an equally dim view. This is complicated by the fact that First Nations themselves are highly stratified. They receive billions in dollars from the federal government with zero overs…

un-elected government officials and activist judges

Does "activist judge" mean the same thing in Canada that it does in the United States: "Any judge who rules against my position?"

Also:

dismalaf

Name checks out.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#177

Post by cf100clunk » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:13 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #172

cf100clunk wrote: post #98

Some numbers to consider: ~465,000 legally verified signatories to the federalist petition to declare Alberta permanently part of Canada ~360,000 status First Nations persons within Alberta ~330,000 legally unverified signatories to the separatist petition to hold a referendum to separate from Canada First Nations have successfully argued in court that as consultations with them are required by the Canadian Constitut…

I see from other comments that there's some concern over the validity of the signatures. But comparing the number of signatures on competiting petitions doesn't tell us much. I assume signature gathering in Alberta shares some common ideas with places I've lived... If you want something on the ballot you have a minimum number of signatures to gather, maybe another tier that enables a faster process, and you want to c…

Courts have determined that in these processes consultation must occur even at early times as this.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#178

Post by llm_nerd » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:14 PM UTC

dismalaf wrote: post #148

cf100clunk wrote: post #113

A related issue is whether, or to what extent, a seceded entity can itself be subject to secession. This concern came up in Quebec when Cree and other groups suggested they'd drop out of post-separation Quebec and ''rejoin'' Canada. Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta sep…

> Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta separatists would face the same challenges and take an equally dim view. This is complicated by the fact that First Nations themselves are highly stratified. They receive billions in dollars from the federal government with zero overs…

> So what happens if a majority of First Nations people want to separate but the chiefs in charge of a particular band don't?

It seems you're implying something here that is comically ridiculous. Like some sort of crocodile-tear for natives who are unheard, but thankfully you've got their back.

Natives overwhelmingly reject both Quebec and Alberta separatism. Quebec is old news so I'll ignore that, so instead lets stick to Alberta.

The Alberta separatism movement (~30%, which is about the same as the MAGA base in the US, and they are largely interchangeable and driven by the same racism and stupidity, and the MAGA base is hugely the reason this is all happening, grotesquely interfering in Canada) is overwhelmingly filled with right-wing, racist, backwards hicks. The idea of being dragged along with the goals of those people is utterly orthogonal to the best interest of natives, for blatantly obvious reasons.

>Bands and their elected officials voted to allow pipelines, then some "hereditary chiefs" associated with environmentalist groups convinced courts that their opinion carries the same weight as elected chiefs and the court blocked pipeline projects

You mean the pipeline that is currently fully built and operating at triple capacity? THAT pipeline? Or the many other pipelines that have been built, where resource extraction is higher than it has been in history?

Or maybe you're talking about the coast to coast pipeline that would have been built under the national energy program that Alberta not only rejected, but they use as the basis of their rage to this day (while simultaneously bashing their fists about not having a coast to coast pipeline).

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#179

Post by Muromec » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:15 PM UTC

gpderetta wrote: post #119

nonethewiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? I would assume you can't just decide to leave. EDIT: oh, there is a process. thats the Clarity Act. This seems extremely surprising - I've never heard of this sort of thing before with any other country.

EU famously has one. Of course you might not consider it a country.

EU doesn't call itself a country strategically to not trigger the usual suspects

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#180

Post by Muromec » Fri, May 22, 2026, 5:16 PM UTC

petcat wrote: post #81

nonethewiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? I would assume you can't just decide to leave. EDIT: oh, there is a process. thats the Clarity Act. This seems extremely surprising - I've never heard of this sort of thing before with any other country.

> Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? Does there need to be a legal process? If Albertans are willing to fight a war over it then all they need to do is declare that they don't recognize Ottawa's authority anymore and then go about trying to get other countries to recognize their independence.

Yes, but having a law is cheaper than having a war