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Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

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Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#171

Post by mmooss »

trilogic wrote: post #139

They should create a giant AI LLM model trained on that data. Then settle with some form of payment like others did (learning from the best LOL). Then I don´t understand why once bought a book can´t be uploaded online? If you are not engaging in a commercial activity I don´t see the issue, the book was bought is not a state secret. By that logic the cookie trackers, that literally track/spy you and that buy and sell…

> They should create a giant AI LLM model trained on that data.

It's interesting that Anna's could have kept the data to themselves and had a major advantage in training LLMs, either creating their own or charging possibly billions to large LLM companies.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#172

Post by doctorwho42 »

nemomarx wrote: post #148
blairbeckwith wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really a meaningful distinction between how libraries treat digital book licenses and physical books when you actually hit reality? My knowledge of how libraries work is very shallow, but I've always understood that they treat physical books as essentially consumable and have fairly high standards for what a "lendable" copy of a book is. A purely assumptive example, but if a library pays for a 2 year license…

They sell them at the end of their life, sometimes, so you recoup a bit of the cost there. And you can also get books donated which reduces the up front cost. I don't see a good way to do that for digital copies, and of course the expiry would be wholly artificial scarcity for them even if it was only a little bit more expensive than physical.

It really comes back to IP law. In the past, the idea was you own the content for 20-30 years and then after that... It is owned by all of society.

Digital content is a great example of why we should fight back for old IP timelines.

Without it, we stagnate as a society. Our stories don't evolve, they just rot on the vine.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#173

Post by doctorwho42 »

blairbeckwith wrote: post #138
presbyterian wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but under a completely different system than the way that they do for print books. When a library buys a print book, they can keep it in circulation for as long as they want and it's physically durable, but for digital, they're paying either per circulation or for an amount of time. They never own anything, they pay for temporary licenses, just like you never own the digital media you purchase in most cases.…

Is there really a meaningful distinction between how libraries treat digital book licenses and physical books when you actually hit reality? My knowledge of how libraries work is very shallow, but I've always understood that they treat physical books as essentially consumable and have fairly high standards for what a "lendable" copy of a book is. A purely assumptive example, but if a library pays for a 2 year license…

The difference is that the books value, even reprints, become lower over time. Until they hit a minimum margin for the construction of said book.

Digital books/content requires little to no cost to replicate, unlike printing new books. But we have seen that the price of that content follows the "physical goods" model. Why should a 30-40 year old movie cost you $20 to steam?

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#174

Post by Caracas288 »

What if each country had a sovereign wealth fund dedicated to compensating those who have made creative works. It would be controlled by a federation of libraries or a central library,

The ‘creative goods’ would be made available to the entire countries population via a zero-information key given to each citizen, and their preservation would be ensured by the central library.

Like an ordinary library, anyone would be able to request works for accession.

The number of downloads of a certain piece of media would be tracked, and the fund would pay out accordingly. Because it would be the easiest way of getting any media and the system well-designed, piracy would be negligible (a la Steam).

You’d have to consider trans-national sharing though.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#175

Post by nemomarx »

tim333 wrote: post #169
nemomarx wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I download an archive of movies so a human animator can study the techniques there? Surely you have to make the copy to feed it into the llm for training, so

I think some of the LLM companies have used legally purchased materials.

Do you happen to have an example? The closest I can think of is adobe for images, but I've never heard of a text based llm trained purely on legally acquired books.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#177

Post by tim333 »

nemomarx wrote: post #175
tim333 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the LLM companies have used legally purchased materials.

Do you happen to have an example? The closest I can think of is adobe for images, but I've never heard of a text based llm trained purely on legally acquired books.

There's stuff here on Anthropic https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1lkv2r9/anthropic_de...

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#178

Post by Schmerika »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #132
contubernio wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Justice should not depend on whether the aggrieved appears in court. That's a structural weakness of US law.

is there a country where if you don't show up to court you don't lose by default?

Supposing that to be true... Does justice depend on what every other country is doing?

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#180

Post by FireBeyond »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #122
FireBeyond wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You as a business are free to not to business with Europeans.

Why can't euros do as they want instead of as they're told?

I don't know, why do you follow the laws of the US? (Bear in mind, I live in the US, though I was born in Scotland.) Something something as enacted by democratically elected representatives something something.
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