Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

vaticannews.va

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 264 posts

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#171

Post by CoastalCoder »

bananaflag wrote: post #128
ilaksh wrote: post #18

I'm an atheist, but most of what I have heard from popes in recent years seems like sound and possibly needed advice. Also, even though I feel AI and robotics are very important for progressing humanity, I think that much of the world has long since lost a proper sense of intrinsic human value. It's really gone from overt exploitation to slightly more mild exploitation where we pretend the system is really merit base…

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" This is the position of the Catholic Church, so don't expect anything different. My hope is that, within those boundaries, he may find something interesting and meaningful to say.

I've recently started listening to a podcast from a retired Anglican Bishop, "Ask N.T. Wright Anything".

IIUC, he claims that the concept of "soul" is something that the wasn't really present in the Jewish worldview of Jesus' time. Rather, it's something that later theologians (Aquinas?) picked up from Greek philosophy (Platonism?).

I wonder if that means Wright would have a different take on the whole "only humans have souls" idea. (Beyond just differing on the choice of terminology, I mean.)

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#172

Post by epolanski »

nilkn wrote: post #26

I'm not religious and haven't been since 2008. However, the world today is very different from then. It's fragmented, far more authoritarian, much more dangerous, with "us vs them" mentalities just gaining more and more traction in general in so many countries. There are almost no political leaders left in the world offering a vision that is distinct from mere survival instinct or domination or some mixture of the tw…

I have long come to the conclusion, backed by data, that presidential and semi-presidential systems are deeply flawed.

There's a reason why not a single country turning authoritarian in the last 50 years has been a representative parliamentary democracy. The last one has been Sri Lanka in the 70s. Not a single one since then.

Electing single individuals to power instead of parties and coalitions is a terrible idea.

They are all, and I want to emphasize all, presidential or semi presidential. From Belarus to the Philippines, from Russia to Nicaragua, from Turkey to Tunisia the list is entirely composed by presidential or semi presidential republics.

There are several reasons why this happens, and why it tends to kill pluralism and proper democracy with winner-takes-all mechanics (which also tends to aggregate people across very few/two parties).

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#173

Post by notepad0x90 »

torben-friis wrote: post #124
notepad0x90 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough to disagree with this specifically, but reductionism and generalizing is its own problem. A PR stunt is far cry from a power grab. Reductionism favors addressing large trends, and large boogeymen, classes, groups, etc.. instead of doing the diligent work of finding root causes, nuanced as they might be, and addressing those. If what you say is right, I would challenge that by still insisting the c…

I don't think it's reductive, the root cause you ask for is relatively obvious: no system can indefinitely tame a set of forced that are at near peer powers. If private entities have as much power as the sum of common citizens to influence public opinion, policy, or the action of elected officials, then they overtake the system, whatever it is, however it's been designed. An upper bound on individual power is then th…

I agree, and most people agree too. Upper bound on power though, not wealth. This has been an issue for a long time. In the 30's business men tried to overthrow FDR and got a slap on the wrist for example. Something about the structure of government doesn't account for them, and expects politicians and voters alike to be noble and honorable on default.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#174

Post by radlad »

graemep wrote: post #164
xdennis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I'm an atheist too, but I don't think religions should appeal to outsiders. Why not? When i was an agnostic I liked the Catholic church as an institution (and many other religious organisations too). > The idea is that by relaxing norms, he wants to gain more members. That is a ridiculously cynical take. People join the church, and even more the priesthood because they believe. Why would they corrupt the message to…

You seem to be responding to OP line by line instead of understanding their overall point.

OP doesn't appear to be saying Catholicism ought not to grow - rather that they believe trying to appeal to a wider audience than that which is already interested in religion is likely to fail, or worse, backfire.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#176

Post by buntsai »

bananaflag wrote: post #128
ilaksh wrote: post #18

I'm an atheist, but most of what I have heard from popes in recent years seems like sound and possibly needed advice. Also, even though I feel AI and robotics are very important for progressing humanity, I think that much of the world has long since lost a proper sense of intrinsic human value. It's really gone from overt exploitation to slightly more mild exploitation where we pretend the system is really merit base…

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" This is the position of the Catholic Church, so don't expect anything different. My hope is that, within those boundaries, he may find something interesting and meaningful to say.

Is that really the position of the Catholic Church or what is a caricature of what people think it believes? The nice thing about the Catholic Church is that required beliefs have a formal spec. For something has important as this, there would be a clear and unambiguous references. Catholic Catechism / church council / papal encyclical. Do you have a quotable reference?

What I can find is only Aquinas that all living things have souls (anima). Humans have rational human souls. Animals have animal souls...

Descartes believed that only humans have souls. But that definitely represents a clear alternative to traditional Catholic beliefs. Many modern philosophers might argue that only humans have "consciousness" in a way that implies animals do not have souls.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#177

Post by NoGravitas »

monooso wrote: post #165
antinomicus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last bit is false, you are conflating Zionism and Judaism. Plenty of non weird non colonizer non Zionist Jewish folks.

Disclaimers: atheist, no (informed) opinion regarding GP's comment. From my outside perspective, Israel's leadership appears to have spent years deliberately conflating Judaism and Zionism.

They have, but you don't need to let them get away with it.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#178

Post by tharmas »

ryandrake wrote: post #146
KoolKat23 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point, further to your point on AI. Another perhaps worse offender is our focus on "the economy", at times the focus is always on "what about the economy?!" Forgetting "the economy" is merely a tool intended to improve the human condition. Sometimes I feel people lose sight of this original intention, be it unintentional or otherwise.

When Media Talking Heads say “the economy,” what they are really talking about is just rich people’s investments and old people’s retirement. Basically, for reporters, the economy = only stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.

Precisely.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#179

Post by buntsai »

levocardia wrote: post #46
alach11 wrote: post #6

It's a tall order to live up to the impact of Rerum novarum, the encyclical by the former Pope Leo that greatly guided thinking out of the industrial revolution. Personally, I'm excited to read this. If we take the claims of most AI labs at face value, they believe their work will fundamentally change the relationship between humans and the economy. More involvement from faith leaders is a good thing.

The intentional parallels are hard to miss: - Pope Leo XIII wrote Rerum Novarum; current Pope Leo XIV chose his name as an explicit gesture to his nominative predecessor - This encyclical is a return to the earlier tradition of latin names (Magnifica Humanitas) for encyclicals, as opposed to many of Pope Francis' which used Italian (Laudato si') - The official date it was signed was 135 years to the day since Rerum N…

Don't forget the encyclical with the German ("Mit brennender Sorge") rather than Latin (Ardens curarum?) title written by Pius XII and promulgated by Pius XI.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#180

Post by Antibabelic »

1718627440 wrote: post #152
boredhedgehog wrote: post #113

I wonder what language the encyclical was written in. Could it be the first one originally English?

The name of an encyclical is the start of it. Does "Magnifica humanitas" sound like English to you?

I think the parent comment is wondering if it was originally drafted in English and then translated to Latin.
Post reply on HN