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I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

frederickvanbrabant.com

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Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#171

Post by RaftPeople »

ddosmax556 wrote: post #146

This article assumes that AI only has an impact on the development phase which is certainly not true. It can speed up every part of the step. Including ideation, legal, documentation, development, and deployment. Ideation: Throw ideas back & forth, cross reference with knowledge bases, generate design documents. Documentation: Generate large parts of docs. Development: Clear. Deployment: Generate deployment manifests…

I tend to agree with the article.

A typical example of trying to add a new significant capability involves many meetings (days, weeks, months, etc. )with the business to understand how their work flows between systems X, Y and Z as well as all of the significant exceptions (e.g. we handle subset A this way and subset B that way, but for the final step we blend those groups together, except for subset C which requires special process 97).

Then with that understanding comes the system solutioning across multiple systems that can be a blend of internal system or vendor's system, each with different levels of ability to customize, which pushes the shape of the final solution in different directions.

There is certainly value in speeding up coding, but it's just one piece of the puzzle and today LLM's can't help with gathering the domain information and defining a solution.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#172

Post by icedchai »

OccamsMirror wrote: post #164
pkoird wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. People don't realize that it's all numbers. Given average IQ of people involved in a project is 140, an AI with an IQ of 150 can replicate each and every such individuals in the pipeline. People saying AI can't do this or AI can't do that should come to terms with the fact that this IQ gap is monotonously increasing.

Funnily enough, though, I think it makes dumb people dumber.

I agree. Inexperienced people (not necessarily "dumb") are likely to accept everything at face value, not apply critical thinking skills, and not even check the AI generated output.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#173

Post by obsidianbases1 »

echelon wrote: post #154
ddosmax556 wrote: post #146

This article assumes that AI only has an impact on the development phase which is certainly not true. It can speed up every part of the step. Including ideation, legal, documentation, development, and deployment. Ideation: Throw ideas back & forth, cross reference with knowledge bases, generate design documents. Documentation: Generate large parts of docs. Development: Clear. Deployment: Generate deployment manifests…

The onus isn't on people using AI effectively to prove it to others. In fact, these disagreements and disbeliefs create opportunities and salients in the market.

Indeed. I suspect most effective AI users are quietly making real progress toward their objectives.

Anecdotally, I see a lot of problems/solutions content about AI that doesn't reflect at all the challenges I face. But trying to tell people that there are other ways of doing things, especially when it conflicts with token-maxxing, is a lost cause

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#174

Post by Avicebron »

gravity2060 wrote: post #162
ddosmax556 wrote: post #146

This article assumes that AI only has an impact on the development phase which is certainly not true. It can speed up every part of the step. Including ideation, legal, documentation, development, and deployment. Ideation: Throw ideas back & forth, cross reference with knowledge bases, generate design documents. Documentation: Generate large parts of docs. Development: Clear. Deployment: Generate deployment manifests…

All of the above points align with our organization’s experience. But there is one more thing happening as well: we have more people in more roles able to create software solutions for issues that used to be brute forced via physical processes. (We are a small manufacturing business.) While these aren’t big giant enterprise projects that require deep swe experience, they are simple software tools that are improving p…

I would be really interested in the details of these kind of tools that are improving processes and productivity.

Are they reasonably documented/audited/put into any sort of version control like a lot of internal tooling? Or are they the kind of the thing that gets whacked together on the fly in a "move spreadsheet data from A to B", "I want a list of people's schedules with custom highlighting" kind of things.

Not doubting your productivity increase, I'm just curious how people quantify that when they say it.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#175

Post by [deleted] »

shalmanese wrote: post #21

This is all substantially correct and gives us hints as to where to focus for AI to make the processes go faster. Eg: I had a product manager say to me that he envisions a future where any meeting with stakeholders that does not result in an interactive prototype by the end of the meeting would be considered a failure. This feels directionally correct to me. The other thing I expect to see is Vibecoding being the "Ex…

[deleted]

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#176

Post by dakolli »

I just spent a few days cleaning up someone's web app they created with Claude Code. There was more than 30k lines of DEAD code, and I was able to cut the code that was actually being used down by ~30-40%. If I just wrote this app myself It would have taken a day or two.

LLMs are not helpful, they make everything worse. They make you worse, or reduce you to average at best. I really just don't see what ya'll are seeing. I have access to every model with no limits, Its not issue of "holding it correctly" I can assure you, I've tried.

Yes it can create very small programs with low complexity, but anything of any size ends up as a literal Eldritch horror or with so many subtle bugs that make life miserable. I actually hate all of you that are pushing it onto people, its such a lie.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#177

Post by bob1029 »

I think it will.

The primary issue is simply that developers are the most immediately impacted by this technology. The combination of being able to adopt, willing to adopt, and the tech actually being incredibly good at developer related concerns is unique. The rest of the business will eventually catch up. I'm watching it happen in real time. It is agonizingly slow in most places, but it is happening.

The developers being able to drain a one year long work queue in an afternoon is meaningless if the rest of the business cannot absorb the effects of that work in the same timeframe. The business will not leave your idle work queue on the table for long though. Keep pulling a vacuum on them and they will fill the space eventually.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#178

Post by lakshjain1705 »

Great explaination it is true that AI doesn't generates the correct programs everytime but sadly it has become a common practice to involve AI in every aspect of Software Engineering, and it is true that it made Software Engineers to become product manager and their work has become to debug and test the entire codebase which adds more frustation.

Everything is OK, but the size of Gantt chart should be expanded.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#179

Post by xeromal »

argee wrote: post #88
somenameforme wrote: post #50

I think there's an interesting dichotomy. I find that for things I'm already capable at, LLMs are relatively inconsequential. But for things I'm no good at, it's a huge game changer. For a large company, that's going to be able to hire out most needed roles for any given project, this means the overall effect is going to be relatively inconsequential. At best, they may be able to cut down on labor costs by having one…

> I find that for things I'm already capable at, LLMs are relatively inconsequential. But for things I'm no good at, it's a huge game changer. What are the chances that this is the Gell-Mann amnesia effect? Sounds like the textbook definition of it. Personally, I find the exact opposite to be true. LLMs only help me when I already know exactly what I'm doing.

I can give an anecdote. I'm a backend engineer for a service that I would consider pretty high horsepower. We get about 30k sign ups and trillions of events a day. I haven't touched the front end with a 10 foot pole since college.

I got the opportunity to rewrite our aging login page just as a fun experiment. I sat down with one of our analysts and we just went to town in a zoom trying out stuff with claude until we made something pretty sweet. Ran it through all our systems for accessibility, performance, etc and it came out clean. Made a PR and fired up a test that day in production. I haven't written a lick of our front end framework ever in my entire life and we were able to build something that has had a marked improvement in our user engagement in a day.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#180

Post by wise0wl »

RaftPeople wrote: post #171
ddosmax556 wrote: post #146

This article assumes that AI only has an impact on the development phase which is certainly not true. It can speed up every part of the step. Including ideation, legal, documentation, development, and deployment. Ideation: Throw ideas back & forth, cross reference with knowledge bases, generate design documents. Documentation: Generate large parts of docs. Development: Clear. Deployment: Generate deployment manifests…

I tend to agree with the article. A typical example of trying to add a new significant capability involves many meetings (days, weeks, months, etc. )with the business to understand how their work flows between systems X, Y and Z as well as all of the significant exceptions (e.g. we handle subset A this way and subset B that way, but for the final step we blend those groups together, except for subset C which requires…

I've seen proposals for Product Managers to define those conditions themselves by speaking with the LLM. A continuing architectural diagram is constructed and graph is updated until all cases are covered and then the LLM writes the code, writes the validations, pushes to CI environments, runs tests, schedules prod deploy (by looking at company event schedule), gets CAB approval, deploys code, tests in prod, and fixes regressions.

I'm not saying this is the correct thing, but companies are implementing it and it is "working". I don't think keeping our head in the sand is helping.

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