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Airport Security Is Killing Us

businessweek.com

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Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#171

Post by Zigurd »

aneth4 wrote: post #62
pyre wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you enter a courthouse > you have a choice whether to enter them Not necessarily...

True, though the security concerns of weapons in a courthouse surely justify a baggage scan, metal detector, and pat down. Security is far more of an issue in a courthouse even than on a plane.

Having recently been on a jury, I wish airport security was as hassle free as a courthouse in Massachusetts, where my bag was x-rayed with my laptop in it, and I walked, shoes on, through a metal detector.

I also agree that, in practical terms, security at a courthouse faces many more real-world challenges than air travel.

That should tell us something about appropriate levels of security.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#172

Post by makmanalp »

engtech wrote: post #123
makmanalp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support gun control and everything, but how do you know that the low homicide rate is because of the gun control? Japan has been a model for social order (putting aside organized crime, in the sense that you lose your wallet and it gets returned to you, muggings don't happen often, etc.) for a long time.

I don't know that the homicide rate is because of gun control. I don't think it is possible to directly come to that conclusion given the other societal factors. But it's an interesting data point. This article tries to dissuade that control gun is responsible for the low homicide rate in it's summary. http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html "The idea that Japanese gun laws should serve as model for other nations…

Awesome POV, thanks!

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#173

Post by lancewiggs »

a_c_s wrote: post #134

Am I the only one to have pleasant experience flying? I usually travel 2-4 times a year by myself as a single male. I plan for security (eg. I don't try to bring along liquids and wear shoes that are easily removed) and haven't had to wait in a security line longer than 15 minutes in the US in 6+ years. I have been pulled aside twice to be patted down by the TSA, neither of which invasive nor did they get near my gen…

I feel sad that you find being crotch-groped by anyone acceptable, let alone someone who has asserted legal authority to do so. Would you like your 13 year old son and daughter to be exposed to the same process? How about someone who has been a victim of abuse? Yes it's amazing to fly through the air, but the US airports, security and airlines do the level best to convert that miracle into torture.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#174

Post by gnud »

tadfisher wrote: post #169
pessimizer wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can tell you that your experience will be vastly different depending on where you live and work. I'm not sure how this makes the US different from the countries it's being compared to. They all have more and less dangerous regions. There are more and less dangerous regions within a block's walk from me, but the average over that area gives me a general basis of comparison with other areas. I always feel that there…

> I always feel that there's a racial subtext to this kind of defense of US statistics (which I often hear in terms of education, crime, and health outcomes.) There is, and that is a characteristic of the United States in general of which most who live there are keenly aware. This is why they speak quickly against comparisons of the United States as a whole against Scandinavian countries or Japan. Those countries do…

Both Sweden and Norway had sterilization programs for "unwanted elements" (in Norway, mostly Romani, in practice) until the mid-70s.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#175

Post by zanny »

anu_gupta wrote: post #142
tokenadult wrote: post #24

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

> I say let loose the drones You do realise that what the drone attacks are doing is to further radicalise people in Pakistan, don't you? A bit like what's happening in Gaza, what these attacks do is remove a few visible figureheads, kill people who aren't necessarily connected, and turn a good number of previously neutral or inactive people into sympathisers or more active combatants. The idea of a relentless attack…

Being an invasive empire doesn't make people like you? What an interesting proposition. It might baffle a few dozen suits who run the military industrial complex, before they go back to laughing while wiping their bums with $100 bills of taxpayer money.

Same way the pharmaceutical industry, for profit prison industry, and lumber industry (last one is debated plenty) will continue to shove money into politics to keep drugs illegal and prisons nicely packed full of pot smokers. It is all about the money, not the morality. That went out the window decades ago.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#176

Post by akgerber »

ry0ohki wrote: post #28

Odds of dying from fireworks: 1 in 652,046 Odds of dying from lightning strike: 1 in 134,906 Odds of being legally executed: 1 in 111,179 Odds of dying from contact with bees/wasps: 1 in 79,842 Odds of being shot: 1 in 6,609 Odds of dying from a fall 1 in 163 Odds of dying in a terrorist attack: 1 in 3,500,000 Maybe we should switch the TSA to bee patrol. (Source: http://www.nsc.org/NSC%20Picture%20Library/News/web_g…

Odds of dying in a car accident: 1 in 6700.

Maybe the TSA should enforce traffic laws or build commuter rail lines.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#177

Post by michaelfeathers »

awj wrote: post #113
lambda wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between "consent" and "putting up with because you want something else more." I generally have a greater need to fly than to avoid being felt up. This does not mean I consent to being felt up. The fact that the Supreme Court mistakes this for consent bothers me greatly.

Not in this case there isn't. You showing up at the airport and going through security is implied consent to the search, just like opening the door to them without explicitly denying consent is enough for police to legally enter your house.

That's merely because the concept of consent has become polluted.

Anyone who wants to know what I consent to has to ask me.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#178

Post by dagw »

Osiris wrote: post #69
rplst8 wrote: post #10

Someone else did an analysis of airline travel and highway travel and came up with a similar finding. Blow up one plane per month over the continental US and flying would still be two orders of magnitude safer than driving or riding in an automobile over your lifespan. There's no proof that TSA is making things any safer either. No one will ever pull another fast one on the passengers of a plane again. We all know th…

* We all know that the planes themselves are weapons * Which is why I don't understand why pilots have to be screened. They are flying a huge flying bomb. What will screening them for nail-clippers solve? (Side note: I did, in fact, have my nail clippers taken by the TSA once)

Which is why I don't understand why pilots have to be screened

A person could be supportive of the cause without being willing to sacrifice his life. If pilots could get into restricted areas un-screened they could bring in bombs or weapons which they hand off to third parties. This would also be a more efficient use of a limited resource (the hypothetical Taliban sympathizer flying for a commercial airline).

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#179

Post by UnFleshedOne »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #131
engtech wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the recent long gun registry, Canada has always had much stricter gun legislation than the U.S. This website gives a walk through of the process required to legally obtain a gun in Canada: http://www.howtogetagun.ca/ In 35 years of urban living in Canada, I've never seen a firearm that was not being carried by a law enforcement official. I do not know anyone who owns a fire arm. This seems ver…

This underlines what NRA folks have been saying: strict gun registration laws are tantamount to a ban, as your experience illustrates.

Not in my experience. There are plenty of shooting ranges in Canada and they are always full. Properly equipped shooting range is the only place where you can legally shoot restricted guns -- pistols and such. Rifles and shotguns (unrestricted) on the other hand are common in rural areas and you can buy one in Canadian Tire in hunting section and shoot on your property or crown land. I know few people who drive around with a rifle in the back of their truck. No automatics anywhere though. :(

You have to pass a safety test (common sense, plus some regulations) and get few references to slightly increase the chance that you are not criminally insane to get PAL, but it is really less than a weekend worth of effort (and some waiting for papers).

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#180

Post by Zimahl »

zanny wrote: post #175
anu_gupta wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I say let loose the drones You do realise that what the drone attacks are doing is to further radicalise people in Pakistan, don't you? A bit like what's happening in Gaza, what these attacks do is remove a few visible figureheads, kill people who aren't necessarily connected, and turn a good number of previously neutral or inactive people into sympathisers or more active combatants. The idea of a relentless attack…

Being an invasive empire doesn't make people like you? What an interesting proposition. It might baffle a few dozen suits who run the military industrial complex, before they go back to laughing while wiping their bums with $100 bills of taxpayer money. Same way the pharmaceutical industry, for profit prison industry, and lumber industry (last one is debated plenty) will continue to shove money into politics to keep…

> lumber industry (last one is debated plenty)

The lumber industry? You're seriously comparing Big Pharma and for-profit prison companies with the timber industry?

I'm not sure if you are talking about America in the 2010s, but the timber industry is tanking. Maybe if you were talking about the 1970s I might peripherally agree.

The timber industry is so bad right now that it is cheaper to buy 2x4s to burn in your fireplace than firewood harvested from logging scraps.

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