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Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

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Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where will this ubi money come from when there is no one to tax and profits are going to tech firms based in America.

I don't have enough expertise in this field but I don't think we should be thinking only with a doomsday scenario, humans are quite resilient and innovative, society will completely change and I genuinely believe we will find ways, there will be a lot of suffering in between (and maybe after as well, as there is now) but we might eventually reach a point in automation where a lot of prices drop to the point where it'…

> but we might eventually reach a point in automation where a lot of prices drop to the point where it's virtually free, food could be included,

It took two world wars till we had an aberrational period where the middle class actually had lives which were good.

UBI can’t happen because governments globally don't have the money to pay for it. Its good to hope, but the details aren’t in favor.

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#172
post #115

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> But how much would you like to bet that 90% of those students who were booing also used AI to do their homework for them quite often? So your take away would be "the AI stole their education". No, they were dishonest and the AI helped them cheat themselves out of learning. This is like saying a smoker can't criticize the tobacco industry. It's entirely possible to recognize that AI in school is a huge problem while…

Again that is a problem with the group of people and how they use technology rather than the technology itself. I will die on this hill: AI _properly_ integrated into education will be a huge improvement for students because it will enable each student to have personalized instruction and tutoring.

exactly! if you _properly_ integrate this argument into Scotland, _then_ it will be a true scotsman, otherwise definitely not!

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#173
post #33

There's a very real possibility that AI proponents completely lose the next generation of adults. The output is not enjoyable to consume, the people who rely on it are not cool, and the effects of using it are unpleasant and hard to defend on aesthetic, intellectual, or moral grounds. There are real use cases for this technology! But the idea that the generation of superficially plausible text is "the next Industrial…

We are about to experience the commoditization of intellectual work, in much the same way the Industrial Revolution commoditized manual production. I don’t expect a Musk-esque abundance utopia this decade, but the impact will exceed anything we’ve seen in centuries. There is not an industry on earth that won’t change in the next few decades.

To conceptualize AI as merely “superficially plausible text” would be like writing off a Watt steam engine in 1776. The current AI bubble might be early, but it won’t be wrong. The fervor with which corporations are exploring the space stems not from misplaced optimism but an existential threat. Right now every industry is vulnerable to disruption on a massive scale.

And we’re still in the early stages. Frontier models like Claude or GPT-5.5 are still just tuning 2017’s “Attention is All You Need” with MoE, RLHF, and more compute. We are roughly where online services were in the early 90s, when Prodigy and CompuServe were battling it out for market share before the open web swept them aside.

We are still waiting for the modern equivalents of Yahoo, Google, Amazon, and Facebook, never mind the lessers. As Tim Berners-Lee said of the web: “we have not seen it yet. The future is still so much bigger than the past.”

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#174
post #163

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But you really believe it will stay that way? What do you think models will be 10 years from now? (not only models, we must include processes and tools in it) - developers were thinking this until recently there is some sort of sudden switch where "shit, it's good enough" and then pass this in a 50x loop and suddenly it becomes "shit, it's actually great" which proves it's a matter of time imo before it's not hollow…

I still think you are missing entirely the point about music or any art in general. It doesn't matter how technically innovative, or how much expertise, a model has, while an AI is not a consciousness that can express itself it will be hollow. There's no way around that. If some form of AI becomes conscious, and can express itself through whatever art form it conjures for that, why would it even use music? Music is h…

I can't fully agree with the hollow part, when AI resonate with me about real-life issues (I understand it's just a machine without thoughts) it's pretty expressive and spot-on, and genuinely useful. I don't really see why it couldn't be the same with music, it can already write completely unique pieces that are very entertaining and full of emotions (even tho they are "fake")...

The brain perceiving sounds a certain way in the end is just data, that can be mapped as well, an AI can make us laugh right because it understands speech really well (and will be a thousand time better someday), what's the actual difference with music?

Let me give you another example, there is some Meme about older folks getting bamboozled by AI images right (especially doomsday stuff) which proves that it does trigger them genuine emotions, what's the difference if that image does actually exist or not (or let say a human photographed it).

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's shockingly good these days; we can argue about morality etc, fine, but burying one's head in the sand and claiming it's bad puts you at odds with reality, which isn't a good place to be. It's pretty silly that so many people take as an axiom that the human brain basically has a monopoly on certain patterns of electrical signals, and have semi-religious beliefs that this will always be the case.

It's not that AI can't convince a novice that what comes out is passible. It's that experts in a field generally agree that what comes out is insidiously hollow garbage. This isn't a "semi-religious" belief. It's linear token soup and diffusion bakes running headfirst into actual expertise, second and third order effects, refined skill and taste, and so on. If you actually want to see civilization advance, you cannot…

It's not the experts that are going to be listening to the music. It's not made for the experts to pick apart and analyze.

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#177
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think you are missing entirely the point about music or any art in general. It doesn't matter how technically innovative, or how much expertise, a model has, while an AI is not a consciousness that can express itself it will be hollow. There's no way around that. If some form of AI becomes conscious, and can express itself through whatever art form it conjures for that, why would it even use music? Music is h…

I can't fully agree with the hollow part, when AI resonate with me about real-life issues (I understand it's just a machine without thoughts) it's pretty expressive and spot-on, and genuinely useful. I don't really see why it couldn't be the same with music, it can already write completely unique pieces that are very entertaining and full of emotions (even tho they are "fake")... The brain perceiving sounds a certain…

I can't go see AI music live. Staring at a GPU just isn't the same.

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#178
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think you are missing entirely the point about music or any art in general. It doesn't matter how technically innovative, or how much expertise, a model has, while an AI is not a consciousness that can express itself it will be hollow. There's no way around that. If some form of AI becomes conscious, and can express itself through whatever art form it conjures for that, why would it even use music? Music is h…

I can't fully agree with the hollow part, when AI resonate with me about real-life issues (I understand it's just a machine without thoughts) it's pretty expressive and spot-on, and genuinely useful. I don't really see why it couldn't be the same with music, it can already write completely unique pieces that are very entertaining and full of emotions (even tho they are "fake")... The brain perceiving sounds a certain…

The difference is the indelitable reality behind it.

You are confusing the topography of it with the substance, what's the point of something that is without substance? Without meaning? It's just fake, whenever you point to someone that an image that brought them joy is fake, generated by AI, it immediately changes the feeling they had. It doesn't bring the same awe anymore, awe is reserved to what is real. It might bring awe in the sense of "woah, a computer can do that" but that's a different feeling than being in awe of the story the image created.

How can it be full of emotion if it's created by something without emotion? It's just a mimicry of emotion, I really cannot understand how you cannot feel that knowing it's not created by another being; being real is the whole point, an emotion triggered by something not real, not experienced, transformed, and communicated by someone else is inevitably hollow.

Like: how can AI know what is to feel in love? Or to feel the loss of a loved one? Or to feel despair about something? Or to feel depressed? Or to feel extreme joy? Why would you listen to a song telling you a story to evoke an emotion on something that simply does not exist? There is no experience being transmitted, it's purely a hollow amalgamated mimicry of the experiences that were ingested but the output has absolutely no emotion, just a synthetic mimesis of it.

You are enjoying the mimicry, it's entertaining, but I really would like for you to ask yourself deeper questions about this rather than be impressed by the surface of it.

> The brain perceiving sounds a certain way in the end is just data, that can be mapped as well

You completely missed the point.

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you all didn't do the political action work to put me on the hook for your healthcare so thoughts and prayers, HNers. Ah so your answer is AI will cause most people to live in abject poverty. Good talk.

AI makes enough stuff no need to care about money.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48099117

But go ahead and commit to the dogma money must continue to exist even though the financial system is merely a socialized ethno object not immutable physics.

I forget my lived experience is atypical among engineers. Before getting an EE degree (which I have not leveraged in over a decade tbf) I worked to live in ruralandia fixing old tractors electrical issues for poor farmers (which turned me on to EE), building barns, homes, rebuilding cars, growing crops, slaughtering livestock for food. I also play 3 musical instruments fluently.

I have a shit ton of experience and muscle memory for doing without money. Get good scrub?

Do not put all your eggs in a single skills basket.

End of day you aren't in a soup kitchen feeding the hungry and exploiting child labor to avoid sewing a shirt. I guess you get what you give, right?

:shrug:

Guess you all should not have ignored politics this entire time. Live and learn.

Thoughts and prayers, fellow Americans.

Re: Students boo commencement speaker after she calls AI next industrial revolution

#180
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many music that are in autoplay on Spotify are AI and I literally didn't know until I checked, the emotion was triggered successfully, I don't really see why only a human could be able to trigger you an emotion? Like if I'm at a party, let say I don't know the artist and everything is AI made and everybody is vibing, then what's "wrong" with it? I think this is more of a musician side which I respect, but a lot of pe…

Most people don't care about music, as most don't care about art in general. People like entertainment though. What you are describing is more akin to a form of hollow entertainment through the medium of music, a lot of pop music can also fall into that category (no, not all, there is also a lot of artistry is many pop artists/songs). If AI-generated music triggers emotions on you then keep consuming it but knowing t…

Music has served various roles throughout history. The whole notion of music being "art" and "invoking feelings" has not always been consistently true across the entirety of its history of various cultures. Painting, drawing, sculpting, and other visual arts have had a similar history as well.

We can take examples of some pieces from famous composers like much of Haydn's works, some pieces from Handel, Bach, Mozart, etc.. Some of their works were commissioned pieces for particular functions. Whether the music be for courts, dances, aristocratic displays, churches, and other events. Even on the battlefield music has been used to route troops, supply orders, and other forms of communication. My point is that there is not always a story to be told. Music can also be used to disrupt one's sense of time -- while on hold on the phone, elevators, etc.. I would not say the music in those instances are really telling me a story either.

Much like the visual arts. Emotion can be expressed in a piece, but pieces can also be functional in nature. There is a difference between figures in an instruction manual, portrait paintings, and a van Gogh piece.

Not to mention that this debate has been had countless times through out history, as well. It's always the same No Scotsman Fallacy. For example, some critics of electronic music have made a similar argument way before AI.

"It's not real music if there are no instruments."

"It's not real music if creates or plays it."

"It's not real music if the music does not adhere to contrapuntal rules."

I think what angers people most is that as technology progresses, the gap between effort and accomplishment decreases. Thus there is some sort of clinging to a sunk cost fallacy for some. As if something being easy to create devalues all the effort one has put into something. Maybe it does? I do not personally think so. If anything, it allows greater access for people to participate in the arts -- something the arts have also had a historically rocky relationship trying to gatekeep.

The invention of the camera did not make painting irrelevant. It even opened a new door to the world of visual arts. I do not think AI music will make musicians irrelevant either, and perhaps new doors might open too.

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