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How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

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Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#171

Post by throw0101c »

HDBaseT wrote: post #53
ruguo wrote: post #31

I wonder if companies like Apple will eventually start making memory themselves.

I would suspect at Apple scale it makes sense. Apple has started making a lot of different things in house, its only a matter of time imo.

> Apple has started making a lot of different things in house, its only a matter of time imo.

Define "making". Sure, they design a lot of stuff in-house (CPUs/SoCs, wireless chipsets, etc), but they do not manufacture these things in-house: they have no fabs themselves.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#172

Post by bullen »

Moldoteck wrote: post #121
bullen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree the problem is modular RAM can't handle the timings of the SoC. There is a new modular RAM standard for precisely that but knowing Apple they will want to make their own. SSD should be easy but since RAM does not last that much longer you still need to resolder that after 5-10 years!

you can have a mix- 4gb embedded ram + 1-2 slots of slower layer

[dead]

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#173

Post by Danox »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #164
CuriousRose wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably apply that logic to any innovation in any industry no? Reusable rockets likely got the same ridicule, as did fast satellite internet, self driving and fully electric vehicles. I can understand that Musk does not have the most palatable personality, but floating ideas and at least attempting innovation regardless of outcome over a long time is a net positive for society and should not be discouraged…

Reusable rockets likely got the same ridicule, as did fast satellite internet, self driving and fully electric vehicles. In those areas, Musk successfully leveraged government largesse to compete with fat, lazy incumbents who had either coasted for decades (rockets and satellite Internet) or who didn't bother to show up to the game (EVs, self-driving and otherwise.) That does not describe the semiconductor industry.…

Intel and Microsoft are having that same problem right now when the playing field is level, they have trouble competing.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#174

Post by hirvi74 »

manmal wrote: post #132
tomalbrc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too but the latest macOS version has ruined it for me, I had to switch back to a previous version.

But how are Neo users dealing with this? It’s a new machine, surely it works with 8GB?

My Neo runs like a sowing machine with 8GBs. So well that I honestly cannot think of any instances where I have felt the system slowdown. I use the device appropriately though -- I'm not trying to run SOTA LLMs locally or anything. For web browsing, light programming, and an iPad replacement, the Neo has exceeded my expectations. Compared to my M4 Mini, I honestly cannot tell a difference.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#175

Post by Danox »

kotaKat wrote: post #130
nikhizzle wrote: post #43

Ex-Apple kernel engineer here, Apple will deal with the memory shortage by making software more efficient in ram usage. Apple will just make every aspect of the system more and more memory efficient. They've done it before over and over and can do it again.

Apple also has all that fast flash to swap to. I never notice when I'm swapping. Even a Neo has fast enough flash to handle a little swap, as a treat.

You can thank Apple for buying Anobit many years ago…

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#176

Post by Danox »

fhn wrote: post #38
dweekly wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by "places orders" we mean "helps TSMC acquire plots of land on which their next facilities will be constructed" kind of level of scope, timing, and commitment.

TSMC doesn't make RAM do they?

No, but they can and so can Apple if it becomes critical, I don’t know what is more critical to Apple than replacing Intel, Qualcomm, or Nvidia, but memory probably is number four on the list which means it probably is something that will be addressed?

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#177

Post by Danox »

SoftTalker wrote: post #4
christkv wrote: post #2

Our problem is lack of competition

High prices for RAM should attract competition.

It will the Chinese, this will be the last big payday for the three company cartel and in time I think Apple will move in-house and design around.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#178

Post by thisislife2 »

pjc50 wrote: post #112
thisislife2 wrote: post #108

Just a thought - stop bloody soldering the RAM and the SSDs. That partially transfers the burden on to the customers and makes their product more repairable ... Mac Minis (with un-soldered RAM and HDD / SSDs) used to be sold with minimum 4 GB RAM, if I remember right). This, way, you can still sell devices with lower RAM, and customers can upgrade in the future when supply increases.

It takes up more space and costs more (connectors are surprisingly expensive), as well as adding an electrical overhead, while most (yes, not all) customers don't take advantage of it.

That's an acceptable compromise to get a system that can be upgraded and / or repaired. Apple already charges a "premium" so nobody (except their shareholders) are going to cry if they make a dollar or two less on each device because of this. Customers do care about such things when they decide to upgrade their device or, more importantly, when they have to repair it.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#179

Post by spicymaki »

Memory optimization is incredibly low hanging fruit. We have been so spoiled with the abundance of memory.

There is just so much code out there that does not manage object life cycles well (over allocation, leaks, etc.), encodes data in text rather than binary representation.

The move to static binaries over dynamic libraries, applications that run web engines underneath rather than cleaner UIs.

I hope the memory shortage will encourage us to focus on efficiency again.

Re: How can Apple deal with the memory shortage?

#180

Post by pmontra »

kube-system wrote: post #137
thisislife2 wrote: post #108

Just a thought - stop bloody soldering the RAM and the SSDs. That partially transfers the burden on to the customers and makes their product more repairable ... Mac Minis (with un-soldered RAM and HDD / SSDs) used to be sold with minimum 4 GB RAM, if I remember right). This, way, you can still sell devices with lower RAM, and customers can upgrade in the future when supply increases.

This makes everyone’s computer slower, more expensive, and less power efficient, and 95-99% of people will never open their computer anyway.

Anecdotally, I bought a HP laptop in 2014 with the basic 8 GB of internal RAM (4+4) and two 8 GB chips from a third party vendor. I opened the box and immediately threw away the 4+4 and replaced them with the 8+8. As you can guess it was much cheaper than the same 8+8 from HP. With soldered RAM one has to swallow whatever price the laptop manufacturer charges.
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