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Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

tomshardware.com

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Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#171

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

ben_w wrote: post #155
pjc50 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitch for AI from its proponents is the destruction of all white collar and creative jobs, while simultaneously making all the content they consume worse and Internet socialization with human strangers replaced by doppelgangers? And you wonder why people are upset?

I believe the proponents think it will make all the content better, not worse, but the current state of affairs is indeed definitely worse. But I essentially agree with you, the destruction of all white collar and creative jobs is something the proponents hand-wave too easily with vague mention of UBI as a thought-terminating cliché rather than a real policy proposal. (Myself, I'm in a strange position with doppelgän…

> I believe the proponents think it will make all the content better, not worse

I believe the proponents think it will make content more profitable, especially in the sense of concentrating the wealth that can be extracted from content creation. Related, there’s a desperate attempt to redefine code as “content”, at least implicitly, so that it can fall under that umbrella as well.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#172

Post by pembrook »

Ekaros wrote: post #135
typon wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why local governments are so against datacenters? It seems like a golden opportunity to build electric infrastructure that's paid for by corporations and if AI is a bubble at least that infrastructure will remain and continue to provide cheap power.

Existing power infra is likely fine enough for current demands. And building new infra doesn't necessarily mean it will be any cheaper to operate or use. So with datacentres providing rather little local economic activity after being build and potential impact on electricity costs say during night overall they are not that beneficial.

It absolutely is not, power infrastructure throughout the US has been massively under-invested in for decades.

Nobody wants to admit this though because they hate AI and what it represents more than they want to rationally think about infrastructure.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#173

Post by bluefirebrand »

Teever wrote: post #41
tempaccount5050 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. 10000 gallons per query, spews out toxic water, contaminates the water supply, uses more power than an entire state, and on and on. I'm convinced it's a psyop to prevent the US's progress in tech. It's so over the top crazy and obviously false, but everyone I know is falling for it.

That's a take. But let's stop and ask ourselves -- Cui bono? Another take is that the same companies that are pushing for datacentres are often the same companies that control social media and traditional media outlets and are using this control to foster datacentres onto thee average person who is either wildly unenthusiastic about or at best ambivalent about. It's all pretty moot anyways. Big tech oligarchs have go…

> There will be datacentres where ever the tech oligarchs want there isn't anything anyone can do about it.

There's plenty we can do about it but the average person isn't quite there yet.

But it's coming

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#174

Post by bluefirebrand »

idontwantthis wrote: post #167
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you have described is an obviously terrible system that doesn’t incentivize lower power consumption. Doesn't it? Suppose you have a battery system which has access to the current price, so it charges when it's cheap and discharges when it's expensive. Then you don't pay the $19/kWh, you run on batteries then -- or sell at $19/kWh. And thereby turn a profit from installing the battery system, creating the incen…

A system where you are incentivized to give up for the rest of the month if you were to high once doesn’t make sense. I am skeptical that the description was accurate.

It doesn't really incentivize that, but it doesn't punish it either

You would have to be really sure there wasn't going to be a higher peak later in the month

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#175

Post by jonhohle »

idontwantthis wrote: post #167
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you have described is an obviously terrible system that doesn’t incentivize lower power consumption. Doesn't it? Suppose you have a battery system which has access to the current price, so it charges when it's cheap and discharges when it's expensive. Then you don't pay the $19/kWh, you run on batteries then -- or sell at $19/kWh. And thereby turn a profit from installing the battery system, creating the incen…

A system where you are incentivized to give up for the rest of the month if you were to high once doesn’t make sense. I am skeptical that the description was accurate.

It’s a peak demand charge. They look at the highest usage hour from 4-7pm every weekday. The highest number adds a charge billed at $19/kw demand.

https://www.aps.com/en/Residential/Service-Plans/Compare-Ser...

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#176

Post by tekla »

typon wrote: post #125

Can someone explain to me why local governments are so against datacenters? It seems like a golden opportunity to build electric infrastructure that's paid for by corporations and if AI is a bubble at least that infrastructure will remain and continue to provide cheap power.

Pretty sure its a populism/slopulism thing. I doubt anyone in govt ACTUALLY cares outside backlash thats prevalent in the media/socials so its easy to capitalize on the "we are doing something for the voters".

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#177

Post by rincebrain »

jliptzin wrote: post #156
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the number of times I heard: “they’re going to be so good at computers!” . I can not imagine getting my children a straight access to internet or a phone or allowing them on social media until after 16.

That just delays the problem a couple years

There's pretty noticable differences in ability to self-regulate between people who had unfiltered access to computers and smartphones when growing up and not, beyond simply generational shifts.

I think the parent's assumption is that 16 is old enough for those problems to be largely avoided even if you gave them unfiltered access, which is what makes it not just kicking the can down the road.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#178

Post by JuniperMesos »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #127
JuniperMesos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not nec…

> As a YIMBYist who can't afford a house where I live, I actively want big money to overrule local government regulators at will, because big money developers make their big money by building houses and local regulators are responding to the NIMBYist concerns of ordinary homeowners that result in insufficient housing getting built. A local government regulator fighting for the interests of local homeowners does not n…

A big money developer who "build[s] as much as possible" absolutely makes my life better compared to the 70 year old woman in my neighborhood who has owned her house for decades and lobbies local government officials to legally prevent anyone from building anything anywhere near here. No house a big money developer actually builds can possibly be as bad quality as the absence of a house.

I don't want said 70 year old neighbor (or in general people who think like her) to be able to successfully lobby local government officials to prevent the construction of data centers either. I use the internet myself, so it benefits me if companies can build internet infrastructure without locals raising ideologically-motivated opposition to it.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#179

Post by hvb2 »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #69
phowat wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is HN let's be factually correct. Almond production is irrelevant in water usage. The bulk of it is going to animal agriculture.

I am finding that 42% of California water is agriculture and 8% of that is for almonds. 3% of state water usage on a luxury nut might not be moving the needle that much, but it does feel wasteful for a state that is perpetually hovering on drought conditions.

It's an export product, they produce about 80% of the world almonds.

You grow what fits your climate, almonds grow very well in California.

If you want an egregious example, alfalfa in Arizona, especially when you know it's irrigated by flooding the field

https://apnews.com/article/saudi-arabia-drought-arizona-alfa...

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#180

Post by fennecfoxy »

FuckButtons wrote: post #118
timmg wrote: post #25

It's not clear from the article whether this is just datacenters -- or if that is just the convenient boogeyman. The grid operator for the northeast, according to my Governor, has been well-behind in building out infrastructure. Of course new datacenters cause more load. But so do new houses (we're building as many as we can) and electric cars, etc.

Electricity usage in N.America / Europe has been static for the last ~20 years.

I could see how this would be the case.

I think we reached peak "electricity" for the consumer decades ago. You know...when our TVs were a giant electron gun pointed as a phosphor screen whilst the room was lit with a filament of 3000 degree tungsten.

...and Americans were getting like 200HP out of a whole ass 7.whatever L v8 ahaha.

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