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Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

reflex.dev

171–180 of 295 posts

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#171
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah damn it, we invented Jira

Jira from first principles Almost sounds like an Orielly book

The O’Reilly animal for Jira is apparently some kind of duck or goose.

Matthew B. Doar (2011). Practical JIRA Plugins. O’Reilly.

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/practical-jira-plugins/...

In case anyone was wondering. Which they probably weren’t :p

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#172

Vision has a long way to go. I remember trying an early version of AWS's Nova Act and laughed at how slow it was. And a few months later it hadn't really seemed to improve that much. Recently, I asked Claude to log into my local grocery store chain's website and add all of the items from my shopping list to a cart. It was hilariously slow, but it did get the job done. Unless I missed it, the article doesn't explictly…

Would a lightweight motion detection algorithm work there?

Thinking of Frigate NVR that does motion > object detection > scene description

Where you build up to progressively slower and more expensive algorithms i.e. there's motion > it's a person > here's what the person is doing

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#173
post #167

I'm always skeptical of the whole "computer use" concept. It's like hiring someone and inviting him to your house and telling him to go ahead, feel free to sleep on the bed, use the toilet, eat whatever is in the fridge, watch the TV, and oh here are the combinations for the safe... and that someone you hire is a monkey.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Are we really having an AI fart around with a mouse and clicking on things to accomplish stuff because we're not capable of making one kind of software query and command another piece of software? It kind of boggles my mind.

The writing was on the wall with the MCP->CLI jump. The promise to investors is that you're replacing people. People don't make API calls.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#174
post #161

And structured APIs are about 1e9x more expensive than not invoking an LLM in the first place compared to using deterministic code to do something ... it's not like any of this is rational based on compute.

It simply doesn't fit in the token/time budget to be useful. I don't think the purveyors of these technologies care about how expensive it is as long as it's "cheap enough"

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#175
post #163

Great guidance hidden in here for making it expensive for agents to navigate your website. Move elements on screen as the mouse moves, force natural mouse movement to make the UI work, change the button labels in the JS to be randomly named every visit, force scrolling to the bottom of the screen to check for hidden extra tasks... Hang on, that sounds like common corporate SaaS apps.

It's really weird, I'm seeing across the board that people who never believed in them before are suddenly all into good software eng practices (starting with writing a spec) because of AI. It's kind of fascinating that we never were willing to do these things for humans but now that AI needs it ... we are all in. A bit depressing in the sense that I think mostly the reason we happy to do it for AI is that we perceive…

My manager just told me that after 12 years of trying to get one of the founders to understand the difference between dev docs and user docs, they tried getting Claude to do it and he finally got it that they are different. He'd been saying this whole time that customer could just read the dev docs. If they could they wouldn't need our software.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#176

I'm always skeptical of the whole "computer use" concept. It's like hiring someone and inviting him to your house and telling him to go ahead, feel free to sleep on the bed, use the toilet, eat whatever is in the fridge, watch the TV, and oh here are the combinations for the safe... and that someone you hire is a monkey.

But think of how comfortable and productive the monkey will feel. It might not be that hard to just build temp housing for it while you have monkey business to do.

  > build temp housing for it
everyone knows the real trouble starts when the monkey asks for the vote

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#177
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jira from first principles Almost sounds like an Orielly book

The O’Reilly animal for Jira is apparently some kind of duck or goose. Matthew B. Doar (2011). Practical JIRA Plugins . O’Reilly. https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/practical-jira-plugins/... In case anyone was wondering. Which they probably weren’t :p

I'm more interested in the next volume: impractical Jira plugins

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#179

It doesn't matter. Electron uses 10x more RAM than regular apps. But it's so convenient. Python is 100x slower than C. It's in the top 3 of languages now. Worse but more convenient always wins.

This is probably why MCP "code mode" (generating code once to call the MCP going forward) hasn't caught on yet... no need until the financial costs reflect reality.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#180

In an agentic world, the OS needs to be completely rethought. For example, every single app functionality should be exposable via an API while remaining human friendly. I think OpenAI designing their own phone is the next logical step. I hope they succeed which should bring major competition to Apple and Android.

We used to have this. It was called OLE Automation.

yep, and applescript...

i'm really not sure companies will allow their apps to be automated so easily, and the reason is api abuse (think of a saas where you can upload file attachments for example); you'd either end up banned or throttled pretty fast, and in the end the company will be like "cost > opportunity" and just close it off (and its like this already, llms just make this worse)

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