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It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

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Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#171

Post by iamnothere »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #159
kstrauser wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is when some states get full of themselves and try to regulate wants to remove the right for local kids to see adult content by pushing complex, unmeetable requirements onto all 50 states. Texas wants to block the other 49 from sending Federally-legal medicines to Texas residents. In general, "small government" states spent a lot of time and effort making other states implement their local experiments. If…

How's this any different than CA telling merchants across the country they can't ship in all manner of products?

That is also a problem. Although in the case of CA it’s not extrajudicial regulation that is the issue; it’s the size of the CA market that causes most manufacturers to design for that market’s regulations. Just as the EU doesn’t require companies to use USB-C globally, but their regulations are having a global impact.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#172

Post by iamnothere »

ramesh31 wrote: post #43
jespinel wrote: post #9

IMO, this is one of the main strengths of the US: you have 50 different options to live according to your values and beliefs, and relatively little friction if you decide to move to a state that better reflects them.

>IMO, this is one of the main strengths of the US: you have 50 different options to live according to your values and beliefs, and relatively little friction if you decide to move to a state that better reflects them. Also a weakness. Utah, one of the most stunningly beautiful states in the union, is completely under the grip of a regressive theocracy that has controlled nearly every aspect of life there for over a c…

Isn’t that the choice of the people who live there? Personally I am for cultures deciding their own local laws and customs, whether it’s Utah, India, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, or England, no matter how repugnant I may find their choices.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#173

Post by classified »

mindcrime wrote: post #116

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone to read Cory Doctorow's novel Attack Surface and to think deeply about the message contained within. He has something significant to say, IMO, about the need for people like "us" (that is, people who care deeply about these issues) to use our knowledge, resources, skills, etc. to help effect changes in public policy through the legislative process as opposed to try…

> they ... can always just beat you on resources and volume.

Or they beat you with this $5 wrench: https://xkcd.com/538/

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#174

Post by shantnutiwari »

As a Britisher: our politicians are sitting there on the edge of their seats, their faces full of glee and joy, anticipating this so they can copy the whole thing .

Pretty sure the joke will be: "Oye! mate you got a loicense for that vpn there?"

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#175

Post by giantg2 »

anikom15 wrote: post #170
giantg2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very well could. See the restriction of fictional adult material depicting fictional minors just because there is a theory of those fake materials contributing to viewers becoming predators in the future. Same sort of harm to children logic could be used here.

VPN instructions aren’t obscene.

When they are on a porn site and intended to expose the porn, then the result is.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#176

Post by giantg2 »

cvoss wrote: post #167
giantg2 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline suggests that Utah is moving in the direction of banning VPNs, and is closer than other states. I don't see anything misleading about that, especially when you see the enforcement piece would fundamentally gut VPNs if implemented.

The most natural reading of "Utah is close to banning VPNs" is that there is a bill working its way through the statehouse that would ban VPNs if it passed. But that is an untrue reading. Another reading of "Utah is close to banning VPNs" is "Utah did something that is not banning VPNs but (as an editorial opinion) is thematically and logically adjacent to that concept." This matches reality (under some viewpoint) bu…

Where did you get the quote you are using in your argument? That isn't what the title says. Do you not think this law going into effect will indirectly lead to VPN bans? It will also move the Overton Window to where a ban is the next step.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#177

Post by f1shy »

chrisweekly wrote: post #124
f1shy wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still easier to move country inside the EU, as an example.

What? That seems highly improbable. Moving to a different US state is pretty trivial.

oops! Now I read it... reads totally backwards. I meant, moving state is easier as moving between countries in the EU

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#178

Post by f1shy »

dgellow wrote: post #131
f1shy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK only Swiss and USA have a real federal estate. Good thing.

What do you mean by real? Germany, Russia are federation, what makes them not real ones?

The power of the central part.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#179

Post by M95D »

brd529 wrote: post #115
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #28

This is the next part of the national Orwellian surveillance system that is "age verification". The first part installs spyware in every operating system. The second part makes it illegal to work around it or find any alternative means of privacy. The final step is a government-mandated ID for logging into these devices with the OS controls, so the government can track everything you do on every device. This is the m…

We (in the tech industry) did this to ourselves. The internet my kids have is very different than the internet I had in the 90s. Algorithmically optimized short form video or other content in an infinite scroll is hurting children so much it borders on abuse. They have no brain capability to resist the micro-dopamine hits we are so scientifically delivering to them. The biggest tragedy is that it hits the lower incom…

This isn't about kids. That's the excuse.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#180

Post by rexpop »

mothballed wrote: post #94
rexpop wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are a glorious immigrant who put it all on the line to give your family a better life According to whom? The immense hardship endured by migrants isn't a badge of glory, but the direct result of a global economic system designed to extract wealth from the global south to enrich the global north. The current economic disparity between the United States and the countries to its south is not an accident. The wealt…

Name a single case of a parent being prosecuted for negligence, or even having their children taken away by the state for the dangers endured in the Darien Gap. They are treated like kid gloves compared to how a US parent is treated if they exposed their children to such risks in moving. No one is claiming the US didn't fuck up South/Central America, your point there is a red herring (US also spent hundreds of years…

I feel like you struggle with the concept of "jurisdiction", and if we were going to look at the holistic picture, rather than charging foreign refugees with child endangerment, we'd be offering them reparations eg subsidizing schooling the way USAID used to until Lord Musk and the DOGE boys took a chainsaw to it.

I still think it's ridiculous that you refer to ICE detention as "kid gloves."

Again, rather than ignoring migrant families, the US government actively targets them; ICE uses Palantir surveillance software to track down and arrest hundreds of parents and relatives simply because they stepped forward to sponsor their unaccompanied migrant children, and now thousands of children are currently in the US foster care system because their parents were deported without them.

You are right, though, that marginalized US citizens face aggressive state intervention and child separation. The US criminal justice and child welfare systems frequently target poor domestic parents, using the threat of child removal to coerce them or punish them.

For example, marginalized women facing minor charges or accused of drug use have faced secret child welfare proceedings, incarceration, and having their newborns placed directly into the foster care system. Domestically, the carceral system routinely tears families apart, leaving hundreds of thousands of parents locked in jail and missing from their children's lives.

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