Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Monero’s proof of work works

blog.alcazarsec.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 244 posts

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#171

Post by OkayPhysicist »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #59
j4cobgarby wrote: post #5

I never quite understand this stuff, maybe someone can help. Are cryptocurrencies supposed to be a potential replacement for real life cash? This was my understanding of the motivation behind Bitcoin, at least. If so, why does it make sense that people can "generate" cash by proving some amount of work done? This of course cannot be done with normal cash. Is the main functionality of these cryptocurrencies supposed t…

There are two parts of an answer to this, because your questions are somewhat divergent: > why does it make sense that people can "generate" cash by proving some amount of work done? This of course cannot be done with normal cash. People do generate money when they work, in a sense, because money doesn't have value. Money represents value. To really understand that you need to think about what money is and why it was…

> Before the invention of money there was only direct exchange; I do/give something for/to you and you do/give something for/to me in return.

This is ahistoric. Widespread barter is only really takes place in post-currency societies. Pre-currency societies mostly engaged in reputation or "gift" economies. When I have a surplus, I share with peers, with the understanding that they have done and will do the same in the future. It can be tempting to map that social obligation onto currency debt, but reputation doesn't really behave the same way as currency does. It's not linearly combined (giving someone with no bread a loaf of bread is going to provide you much greater than half as much standing with that person than giving them 2 loaves), its transaction costs are much, much lower (you probably wouldn't pay the village idiot, but if you enjoy listening to his tall tales, you probably think fondly enough of him to help him out in a pinch, or share some extra berries you found, or you might value the fact that your neighbor gave a loaf of bread to the guy with none from the earlier example, but it would be weird to pay him for that indirect, incidentally service), and it's barely portable: maybe your kid might benefit somewhat from your prestige in the community, but unless he lives up to it it doesn't matter if you saved the village by single-handily slaying the lion that was picking off children and livestock. Likewise you can't just hop over to the next village and expect people to help you any more than basic hospitality rules demand.

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#172

Post by tromp »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #168
tromp wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By having a small daily dollar value (the column "PoW Produced (24h) in [1]). All but the top 15 coins sorted by that column have less than $10k emitted per day in block rewards, which limits the power that miners can spend on competing for it. [1] https://www.f2pool.com/coins

That would mean all but the top 15 coins are exploitable for under $10k per day

But the value of a 51% attack is roughly proportional to marketcap, so while they are cheaper to attack, there's less incentive for the attack. The most (relatively) vulnerable coins are those where the daily dollar value is low relative to the market cap.

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#173

Post by julienchastang »

Aeroi wrote: post #7

[flagged]

Having dealt with hackers (not the HN variety unfort) who go to extraordinary lengths to cryptojack pennies, I completely agree. They always use Monero for some reason. In sum, what is this technology good for?

1. Illegality 2. Speculation (i.e., gambling)

So yes, +1. :-(

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#176

Post by nout »

dhosek wrote: post #71
j4cobgarby wrote: post #5

I never quite understand this stuff, maybe someone can help. Are cryptocurrencies supposed to be a potential replacement for real life cash? This was my understanding of the motivation behind Bitcoin, at least. If so, why does it make sense that people can "generate" cash by proving some amount of work done? This of course cannot be done with normal cash. Is the main functionality of these cryptocurrencies supposed t…

One of the weird things about our world is that money is central to everything, but it’s hard to understand how it works. There’s a great deal of handwaving around how, for example, dollars are created, much of which is, in fact, not correct at all (most dollars are created not by the government, or even the Federal Reserve, but by private banks, via a mechanism which I will not pretend to fully understand). The big…

Allen Farrington makes a solid case in this essay [1] about deflation being the more effective mode of economy.

[1]: http://x.com/i/article/2045147796752175104

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#177

Post by shynome »

ballofrubber1 wrote: post #107
tardedmeme wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a deflationary system, rich people just hold money, and earn more in interest from holding the money, than everyone else earns combined. They use that interest to buy things from the poor while not producing or investing themselves. Poor people realize if they switch currencies they can have more things because they don't have to give a percentage of everything to the rich. This makes the system unstable. Bitcoin…

This still does not work. “Holding money and earning interest from holding it” is a category error. Holding Bitcoin pays zero yield. No coupon, no dividend, no debtor, no tax stream, and no mechanism by which poor people pay holders a percentage. If someone earns interest, they are not merely holding money; they are lending it, which means they are taking risk and providing capital. The “numbers on a spreadsheet” obj…

Money is time. The time that’s passed isn’t as good as right now.

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#178

Post by nout »

cyberax wrote: post #117
j4cobgarby wrote: post #5

I never quite understand this stuff, maybe someone can help. Are cryptocurrencies supposed to be a potential replacement for real life cash? This was my understanding of the motivation behind Bitcoin, at least. If so, why does it make sense that people can "generate" cash by proving some amount of work done? This of course cannot be done with normal cash. Is the main functionality of these cryptocurrencies supposed t…

[flagged]

It's also couple percent cheaper to send money internationally using bitcoin as the "rails" when compared to e.g. Wise. Even for sending money from classical bank in one country to a classical bank in another country. On bigger amounts you can save quite a lot of money.

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#179

Post by proxytoshi »

j4cobgarby wrote: post #5

I never quite understand this stuff, maybe someone can help. Are cryptocurrencies supposed to be a potential replacement for real life cash? This was my understanding of the motivation behind Bitcoin, at least. If so, why does it make sense that people can "generate" cash by proving some amount of work done? This of course cannot be done with normal cash. Is the main functionality of these cryptocurrencies supposed t…

[dead]

Re: How Monero’s proof of work works

#180

Post by Jtarii »

nunobrito wrote: post #74
Jtarii wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great for buying drugs though! (Which is funnily the only actually legitimate usecase)

And sending donations to causes the government doesn't endorse. A good example was the truck manifestation in Canada a few years ago, they went after all the donors for what was a legitimate protest. Anyone using bank transfers or any crypto that wasn't Monero was persecuted. Those who used Monero had their privacy assured and zero issues.

Blocking critical infrastructure is not a legitimate protest in any country.
Post reply on HN