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Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

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Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#171
post #160
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were pretty great though. I mean, racism and people using anthropology to try and act superior to each other aside (which, I will grant, is a pretty big fucking aside): neanderthals were crazy strong and had bodies which had much more "explosive" muscle fibres than that of modern humans (or H. Sapiens of the era). They, of course, had significant misgivings which likely led to their extinction- but I wonder how…

After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. Neanderthals didn't get a rebrand because white people found out they shared DNA; the bad reputation was always built on dodgy science that was already being dismantled. The whole "brutish caveman" thing traces back to 1908, when a French palaeontologist called Marcellin Boule got his hands on a nearly complete Neanderthal skeleto…

>> After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies.

You are approaching this from the scientific angle. The reality is even worst that the video implies.

As soon as Neanderthals became genetic relatives of many living non-Africans ,-) Western portrayals became more willing to imagine them as human like, and even ...white.

"How Neanderthals Became White: The Introgression of Race into Contemporary Human Evolutionary Genetics" - https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/720130

"‘Race’ and the Changing Representations of Neanderthals" - https://scholar.xjtlu.edu.cn/en/publications/race-and-the-ch...

"Making the Neanderthals White: Historicizing Ancestry, Race, and Hominin Heritage" - https://philpapers.org/rec/KERMTN

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#172
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. Neanderthals didn't get a rebrand because white people found out they shared DNA; the bad reputation was always built on dodgy science that was already being dismantled. The whole "brutish caveman" thing traces back to 1908, when a French palaeontologist called Marcellin Boule got his hands on a nearly complete Neanderthal skeleto…

>> After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. You are approaching this from the scientific angle. The reality is even worst that the video implies. As soon as Neanderthals became genetic relatives of many living non-Africans ,-) Western portrayals became more willing to imagine them as human like, and even ...white. "How Neanderthals Became White: The Introgression of Race…

Fair point, and those papers are interesting (particularly the first one, which directly talks about this..).

I think we might be talking about two different things though. The scientific evidence for Neanderthal sophistication was there from the late 1950s; Straus and Cave reexamined the La Chapelle skeleton I spoke about earlier and basically said "this fella could ride the subway in new york and nobody would look twice", the Shanidar burials showed care for the sick, and there were decades of tool and burial evidence piling up after that. So the science was there, it just wasn't penetrating into popular culture.

And I think that's where your sources make a good point, the DNA discovery in 2010 probably did act as the catalyst for the popular rehabilitation. It gave journalists and TV producers a reason to care about something archaeologists had been saying for decades. Whether that reason worked because of racial identification specifically or because "you have caveman DNA" is just a more compelling headline is probably where we'd disagree; I suspect it's both, honestly.

Where I'd still push back a little is on the framing that this was purely a "white people found out they're related, so rebrand" phenomenon. The racial hierarchy framework that created the original caricature was already academically dead well before 2010, the correction was happening regardless, it maybe just wasn't getting airtime.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#173
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. Neanderthals didn't get a rebrand because white people found out they shared DNA; the bad reputation was always built on dodgy science that was already being dismantled. The whole "brutish caveman" thing traces back to 1908, when a French palaeontologist called Marcellin Boule got his hands on a nearly complete Neanderthal skeleto…

>> After doing a bit more digging, the reality is more interesting than the video implies. You are approaching this from the scientific angle. The reality is even worst that the video implies. As soon as Neanderthals became genetic relatives of many living non-Africans ,-) Western portrayals became more willing to imagine them as human like, and even ...white. "How Neanderthals Became White: The Introgression of Race…

The reality is that it's far more complicated than you make it seem.

Archaeology has not been taken over by WYT racist plotting. Neanderthalis did get an undeserved reputation for being thick and dumb. We're correcting that.

And, some people are grabbing onto bits and pieces, and trying to reconstruct that into some racist BS. Similarly, certain things from Norse history are being coopted, but that doesn't mean every new discovery or article about viking exploits is inherently part of a racist conspiracy.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#174
post #34

> the tip of the proverbial ice-berg of Neanderthal impact on herbivore populations, especially on slowly-reproducing taxa, could have been substantial during the Last Interglacial.’ translation: the Neanderthals probably completely wiped out a ton of the species of big animals that once existed in these regions. Homo sapiens isn’t the only hominid to do that…

Neanderthals were homo sapiens.

No, they were literally Homo neanderthalensis.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#175
post #74
post #63

I read this as 'RAT factories' - like Neanderthal decided to breed thousands of rats presumably for food. Assuming rats were meaty and not taboo then, as they are now.

Your comment reminded me of the Great Hanoi Rat Massacre (I won't spoil the punchline): https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-190...

That's amazing, thank you!

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whole refers to the fat content and homogenized refers to a process used to better suspend the fat in the milk to prevent separation. Almost all milk you buy is probably homogenized. They don't technically mean the same thing but if the only thing you see is homogenized on the container, it's probably whole milk.

You are correct that all milk undergoes a homogenization process, but for whatever reason, only 3.25% milk is labelled as "homogenized" in Canada. Even the ingredients/fine-print are like this too, so it's not just a marketing thing [0] [1]. This could be a regional thing though: out east milk typically comes in bags [2], but I'm in the west and have only ever seen milk in bottles, so it wouldn't surprise me if the t…

Dating someone in eastern Canada and seeing bagged milk was wild to my American brain - who puts milk in a _bag???_

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is accurate for post history but evidence doesn't support this for prehistoric hunter gatherer tribes.

Sure it does. We see cultural displacement in the archaeological record all over the world. Bones marred by marks of damage by weapons. Otzi the iceman was possibly hunted down and smote on the mountainside like the Balrog Gandalf did in.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is accurate for post history but evidence doesn't support this for prehistoric hunter gatherer tribes.

Sure it does. We see cultural displacement in the archaeological record all over the world. Bones marred by marks of damage by weapons. Otzi the iceman was possibly hunted down and smote on the mountainside like the Balrog Gandalf did in.

I’m not saying violence didnt happen, of course it did! I’m saying the evidence is not that neanderthals were simply eradicated like animals that were hunted to extinction and that multiple factors led to their gradual decline over time.
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