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American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

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Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#171

Post by pchristensen »

talkingtab wrote: post #149

This measures fatherhood in terms of time spent with children. I question whether that metric is of any value what so ever. Is a farmer a better farmer because he/she spends hours in the field? Or is the correct measure of a farmer the crops? This article, and the place it has on Hackernews and the quality of "commments" raises serious questions for me about Hacker News as a whole, the moderation, the readers and mec…

When it comes to kids, quantity has a quality all its own. Yes, there are better and worse ways to spend time with kids, but between engagement, enrichment, play, laundry, cooking, feeding, changing diapers, etc, there's just an immense amount of time to fill and work to do. By these metrics, doing the dishes probably isn't counted as "parenting", but since it lets your partner spend time with the kid, or rest and recuperate, it's a good proxy.

If you don't believe me, fold a load of laundry the next time you visit a friend with little kids. Or play with their kid for half an hour so the parent can let their guard down for a bit. It has an incredible impact.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#172

Post by pchristensen »

justonceokay wrote: post #6
syntaxing wrote: post #3

Dad and millennial here and this change has been very noticeable in my circle of friends including myself and I’m all for it. Men have been doing their share of housework too. But I will say, it’s not all dads but enough that I think this will have a positive effect on the next generation.

Im gay and because of that was disowned. My partner has a brother “K” and K has three children. Watching K show up in basic ways for his kids, like remembering what songs they like and teaching them sports is the fastest way to make me ugly cry. Thanks to anyone reading this if you’re trying to be a good dad. You’re making the world a better place in ways you don’t even see

This is the rare time I wish HN had emoji reactions instead of just upvotes.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#173

Post by david-gpu »

mothballed wrote: post #169
david-gpu wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating childcare as a chore to be assigned to whichever parent dislikes it the least is not in the best interest of the children. They benefit from having two engaged parents.

It's truly glorious that what's in the "best interest of the children" is whatever matches the stranger outsider's philosophical goals. Of course who could argue with "engagement." That sounds great! The devil of that is in the details, and not necessarily mean anything approaching equal time spent child-rearing. "Interest of the children" spoken by some outsider to try and force others to act towards their philosoph…

I am merely explaining why I take care of my kids. Your reaction suggests that you feel attacked by that, when it is not my intention at all. Where do you think that reaction may be coming from?

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#174

Post by dimes »

pluralmonad wrote: post #156
1970-01-01 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any paper or citations on this? I don't believe it.

You should definitely follow your instincts here, but wanting researchers to show you how to raise your kids is a fools errand IMO. Put those highly tuned parental instincts to use!

Isn’t this the exact sentiment used by those who oppose vaccinations?

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#175

Post by mothballed »

david-gpu wrote: post #173
mothballed wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's truly glorious that what's in the "best interest of the children" is whatever matches the stranger outsider's philosophical goals. Of course who could argue with "engagement." That sounds great! The devil of that is in the details, and not necessarily mean anything approaching equal time spent child-rearing. "Interest of the children" spoken by some outsider to try and force others to act towards their philosoph…

I am merely explaining why I take care of my kids. Your reaction suggests that you feel attacked by that, when it is not my intention at all. Where do you think that reaction may be coming from?

I see, this is all one big misunderstanding and you were only talking about taking care of your kids, not referring to how anyone else might take care of their children. And now I need personal introspection for my psychological weaknesses. You are fucking good at this. I might suggest a career in family therapy or family law, because although this gas lighting won't work on me, they use the same kind of duplicitous rhetoric and you'd fit right in and get it to work on plenty of people.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#176

Post by purplerabbit »

illiac786 wrote: post #115
purplerabbit wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So confidently stated! My wife had ludicrous options and chose it — what draws you to this conclusion?

Parent said often, not always. Counter examples is an anecdote. I would like to see good statistics on this. And your wife’s opinion on her choices.

I'd love to see statistics as well.

My wife self-reports as very happy and talks a lot about how proud she is of the decision. I'll acknowledge that we are privileged in terms of support -- 3 relative families within 30 minutes and most people in a 100 meter radius attend the same church. Even in our setup, however, we really wish we could swing a multi-generational setup and have grandparents around all the time.

Maybe the Amish are on to something!

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#177

Post by grvdrm »

mekdoonggi wrote: post #154
syntaxing wrote: post #3

Dad and millennial here and this change has been very noticeable in my circle of friends including myself and I’m all for it. Men have been doing their share of housework too. But I will say, it’s not all dads but enough that I think this will have a positive effect on the next generation.

I can honestly say that I don't have any time for a dad who isn't all-in for their kids. I understand if the responsibilities aren't 50/50, but if you're making mom handle everything I think you're a loser. All my millennial dad friends clean, change diapers, cook, whatever. And make no mistake all the moms are incredibly hard-working and involved with the kids. If I happened to meet socially a dad who wasn't doing t…

I’m with you mostly. Some different specifics but the point in mind is this: it’s a common thread of rapport and conversation. I sometimes feel like an alien on earth when I spend time with friends or other groups where there seems to be a atrong “ughh my family and home life” vibe.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#178

Post by opo »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #29
nathanaldensr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millennials on the whole are incredibly neurotic about all kinds of things. Why that is is a matter of debate.

> Millennials on the whole are incredibly neurotic about all kinds of things. Truly, this hasn't been my experience. I'm GenX (edit: not GenZ), my parents were Silent Gen (WWII vets) and my kids are Millennials. My 25yo kids understand behavior and psychology better than my parents ever did. The reason my kids grew up imprisoned is there was nowhere for them to go. The risk to their well-being was never from stranger…

>...my parents were Silent Gen (WWII vets)

If your parents were WW II vets, wouldn't they be part of Greatest Generation (often considered to be those born 1901–1927)? Silent Generation are often considered to be those born 1928–1945. They weren't adults when WW II was fought.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#179

Post by Izkata »

mc3301 wrote: post #91
ipsento606 wrote: post #57

I can't help but wonder about the relationship between fathers (and, in fact, all parents) spending more time with their children, and people choosing to have fewer children, and later. I think it's unquestionably true that fathers spending more time with their children is, on the whole, much better for those children. But it's also true that it's a huge problem for society that people are having fewer children. And…

Ugh... In the 90s, people were screaming and panicking about the future of over-population. Dystopian scenes of dense and dirty tiny living-quarters stacked on top of each other. Now everyone's screaming about a declining population. We should embrace and prepare for degrowth for a better chance at a wonderful future, not shout at the sky hoping people will make more babies for the economy. And guess what, if we prep…

> Now everyone's screaming about a declining population.

In general (don't know about the person you're responding to) the worry isn't so much that it's happening as it is the rate it's happening.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#180

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #168
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have a trust fund, of course, which is why I'm working to earn an income. My wife currently stays home with the kids, although that might change down the road. She doesn't have any trust fund or inheritance either, of course. However, although I'm earning the money, it's 100% a shared resource. It goes into a shared account. I'm pretty sure that's a legal necessity since we're married, but it's how we'd choo…

>are we a traditional household in your view? In the context of the original comment by pkaler, and subsequent replies from basswood, mschuster91, purplerabbit, and nradov, I understood "trad household structures" to be one where the man in a husband/wife relationship sells his labor to someone else and the woman does not. So yes, but, I would note that there is probably a difference (for the purposes of this convers…

For what it's worth, we're the first type, which is why my wife will probably join the workforce in a few years too, for want of money. But while the kids are young she thinks it's really important to stay home with them, even if it means living in a cramped basement for now.

But the point is, we both would prefer to be home with the children, and it's only for want of money that either (or both) of us would work. The privilege is being able to stay home; the sad reality is having to work at the office to earn a living.

It just strikes me (and her too) that the conversation around this issue is framed so backwards, as though everyone deeply wants to spend their waking days at an office desk / driving an Uber / etc, whereas spending time with your children is a miserable burden that people only do if forced it with no other options. I get that might be the case for some people, especially if they hate their family or have an abusive partner, but to me it's an alien mindset. Work is the abusive partner that we can't escape from, but tolerate for the kids.

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