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U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#171

Post by Detrytus »

mrits wrote: post #153
Detrytus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that you say that, because LNG exports from Persian gulf being blocked will result in fertilizer shortages and potentially a famine.

More short term thinking

Well, it seems to me that the liberal left agenda was kind of hijacked by big corporations. It used to be that Democrats cared about things like equal pay, labor conditions, education costs. Now it is all about abstract things that don’t matter in the real world: animal rights and carbon emissions.

The “long term thinking” you allude to is just a mind trick to keep you at bay.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#172

Post by bigyabai »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #157
nullocator wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is massively and factually incorrect. When congress passed _defense_ budgets for the last 30+ years none of the munitions intended for the defense of the united states were earmarked for "war with China/Russia/Iran". Some were sold/"gifted" to Ukraine/Israel/etc but there is no language in any bill about stockpiling arms for war against one of those named countries. War which congress must declare.

So as an American I have been sold our need to build up is because Iran/China/Russia. This is factually correct that this is what I have been told. This is going to be wild, but public perception/justification != congressional earmarks language.

China and Russia are peer-power threats to America. Iran is a brushfire war, relatively speaking.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#173

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bigyabai wrote: post #170
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40+ years of 'death to America' from supreme religious leaders met with silence. The double standards/hypocrisy just keep piling up. I guess you have lower standards for shia holy leaders than you do from Trump. You must REALLY hold Shia mullahs in low regard. How much blatant terrorism started via Iranian Ambassadors in the UK becomes a level the UK should respond to? You obviously don't think knifing a few jews is…

The UK and America destroyed Iranian democracy and installed a police state in it's place. There is no "death to Europe" or "death to jews" anywhere in their slogans, because they specifically want to destroy their neocolonial occupiers. As an American myself, I empathize with individuals that fight for the freedom of their people. The founding fathers of America extolled the values of self-determination, and I agree…

Wait, what does this have to do with hanible directive? I'm confused you are all over the place.

>There is no "death to Europe" or "death to jews"' "nobody but Israel is in Iran's crosshairs"

Iran's UK embassy called for attacks in the UK yesterday, and attacks in the UK happened today against random jews.

'The status quo is fine because Iran only calls for the death of the USA and Israel, and that is justified and totally isn't responsible in part for anything that is happening , and Iran only tried to kill a few people in Europe, and they are only jews, and Iran can't target Europe (other than the attempted murders instigated publicly by their diplomats in the UK)'.

That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not Iran's fault. And if it was, Iran didn't mean it. And if Iran did, the US/Israel/random UK jews stabbed deserved it.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#174

Post by bigyabai »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #173
bigyabai wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK and America destroyed Iranian democracy and installed a police state in it's place. There is no "death to Europe" or "death to jews" anywhere in their slogans, because they specifically want to destroy their neocolonial occupiers. As an American myself, I empathize with individuals that fight for the freedom of their people. The founding fathers of America extolled the values of self-determination, and I agree…

Wait, what does this have to do with hanible directive? I'm confused you are all over the place. >There is no "death to Europe" or "death to jews"' "nobody but Israel is in Iran's crosshairs" Iran's UK embassy called for attacks in the UK yesterday, and attacks in the UK happened today against random jews. 'The status quo is fine because Iran only calls for the death of the USA and Israel, and that is justified and t…

So again - look at your position from the Indopacific or Arab perspective. Why would violence against UK citizens compel them to join the war against Iran? What do they have to gain in exchange for the risk to their economy, service members and homeland security?

The UK has already chosen a side, they're not being singled-out by random.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#175

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bigyabai wrote: post #172
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as an American I have been sold our need to build up is because Iran/China/Russia. This is factually correct that this is what I have been told. This is going to be wild, but public perception/justification != congressional earmarks language.

China and Russia are peer-power threats to America. Iran is a brushfire war, relatively speaking.

My entire life USA/IRAN IRAN/USA has been more hot than anything Russia/USA or China/USA. China/Russia like you say are peer competition, that can be worked out. I love the Chinese, I love China, wish I could visit there again. Pre-Ukraine I held Russian in esteem and wanted to visit St Petersburg. And those countries welcomed me and never called for me/my families death during my lifetime. Iran almost my entire life has vocally stated they want me and America dead. Their political leaders. Their spiritual/religious leaders. Their people massed in chants. All want me dead and my society destroyed. I mean they parade ballistic missiles and have banners calling for out deaths while shouting out calls for our deaths. Tehran is filled with murals against us. That combined with continuous low level hot conflict, I don't see the three in anywhere near the same light.

China wants to win and prosper. Russia wants to win and prosper. Iran wants what a strict, severe Islamic theocracy wants, and wants revenge against me/my people/my country for past grievances. They just admitted to murdering 3000 of their own people (and since they only admit to 10% of political executions it could be much much more) in could blood on the streets. I believe them when they say they want 'death to America'.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#176

Post by bigyabai »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #175
bigyabai wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and Russia are peer-power threats to America. Iran is a brushfire war, relatively speaking.

My entire life USA/IRAN IRAN/USA has been more hot than anything Russia/USA or China/USA. China/Russia like you say are peer competition, that can be worked out. I love the Chinese, I love China, wish I could visit there again. Pre-Ukraine I held Russian in esteem and wanted to visit St Petersburg. And those countries welcomed me and never called for me/my families death during my lifetime. Iran almost my entire life…

> IRAN/USA has been more hot than anything Russia/USA or China/USA

My accusation was that Iran is not a peer power, not that their conflict was the least-progressed.

> China wants to win and prosper. Russia wants to win and prosper.

Then why are both of them siding with Iran and not America, in your opinion?

Surely the good people of China and Russia are just as disgusted with Iran as you are, right?

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#177

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bigyabai wrote: post #174
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what does this have to do with hanible directive? I'm confused you are all over the place. >There is no "death to Europe" or "death to jews"' "nobody but Israel is in Iran's crosshairs" Iran's UK embassy called for attacks in the UK yesterday, and attacks in the UK happened today against random jews. 'The status quo is fine because Iran only calls for the death of the USA and Israel, and that is justified and t…

So again - look at your position from the Indopacific or Arab perspective. Why would violence against UK citizens compel them to join the war against Iran? What do they have to gain in exchange for the risk to their economy, service members and homeland security? The UK has already chosen a side, they're not being singled-out by random.

When did a discussion on US war cost become constrained to the Indo-Pacific point of view and how does that tie back to your hanible directive comment?

You seem to have shifted focus after I countered your claim that Iranian violence wasn't a threat to Europe with an example of Iranian violence in Europe from today.

Violence instigated by the official Iranian embassy delegation to the UK. Conducted/called for publicly by Iranian officials in the UK. Conducted against random jewish people because they were jewish and in the UK (a valid target for random civilian attacks in your opinion I guess because 'The UK has already chosen a side, they're not being singled-out by random.')?

Funny how you jumped from number 1. Iran isn't a threat to Europe all the way to 6 on the narcissists prayer with 'The random UK jew deserved the stabling because the UK picked a side'.

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#178

Post by nozzlegear »

dmurray wrote: post #167
nozzlegear wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which American president did not cause the removal of a sitting leader of a foreign nation from power? Joe Biden. Unless you'd contend that withdrawing from Afghanistan was an elaborate, self-owning plot to overthrow the US-friendly government in favor of the Taliban, which I think goes against the spirit of your question.

More on the "funding local terrorists with plausible deniability" end of things than the Trump playbook, but here's the Biden cabinet taking credit for ousting Assad: https://fpif.org/u-s-officials-take-credit-for-regime-change...

Literally the third and fourth paragraph in that link:

> Administration officials deny that they aided Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), the U.S.-designated terrorist organization that led the drive to overthrow Assad, but they insist that they facilitated the opposition’s victory, citing years of U.S. efforts to empower the opposition and weaken the Syrian government.

> U.S. policy “has led to the situation we’re in today,” State Department Spokesperson Matthew Miller said in a December 9 press briefing, the day after Assad fled the country. It “was developed during the latter stages of the Obama administration” and “has largely carried through to this day.”

An Obama-era policy, kept in place through Trump's first term and then through Biden's, ultimately resulting in local forces overthrowing a dictator that nobody liked, does not count as Biden being a warmongering regime changer. Your source even goes on to say that Biden was so dovish on Syria that senators were beginning to suspect he wanted to find a deal to keep Assad in power. What evidence do you have for funding local terrorists in Syria?

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#179

Post by bigyabai »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #177
bigyabai wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So again - look at your position from the Indopacific or Arab perspective. Why would violence against UK citizens compel them to join the war against Iran? What do they have to gain in exchange for the risk to their economy, service members and homeland security? The UK has already chosen a side, they're not being singled-out by random.

When did a discussion on US war cost become constrained to the Indo-Pacific point of view and how does that tie back to your hanible directive comment? You seem to have shifted focus after I countered your claim that Iranian violence wasn't a threat to Europe with an example of Iranian violence in Europe from today. Violence instigated by the official Iranian embassy delegation to the UK. Conducted/called for publicl…

You're the one that threadjacked this discussion, I was hoping you'd be able to explain how the UK's political decisions impact the conflict.

My original statement is that Iran does not present a credible nuclear threat to the United States. The justification for the war is an outright lie, the "dangerous new world" saber rattling has been criticized by defense analysts for the 40+ years it haunted Israeli state media. Retaliatory terrorism in the UK is not going to cause the global stage to reevaluate their position in the US/Iran conflict, your original comment upstream is just more reason not to enable America's war.

> and how does that tie back to your hanible directive comment?

I mentioned the Hannibal directive once in this thread, to illustrate the dirt-poor optics of war with Iran. You've brought it up three times now. Insecure much?

Re: U.S. war in Iran has cost $25B so far, says Pentagon official

#180

Post by eirikbakke »

swed420 wrote: post #93
eirikbakke wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data centers are being paid for by customers, who are receiving greater value from the products than they pay for them.

LMAO would love to see that math (which of course would need to account for the cost to the end user of constant rug-pulling, enshitification, github struggling to maintain one 9 of availability, privacy invasion, rampant mental health issues and political division from profit-based social media, etc)

I pay $100/month for Claude Max and it's like having a (nearly) free, very competent employee. Value _way_ exceeds $100/months. But there's a datacenter that has to run that.
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