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Maladaptive Frugality

herbertlui.net

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#171

Post by bgirard »

anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

I struggle with this too. But I remind myself that I'm buying myself one of the most expensive and valuable gift: freedom and independence.

I also continue to work because I enjoy it. And that will let me pass on this gift to my children.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#172

Post by ge96 »

Frugality

I've been feeling guilty for buying 2 red bulls (sugar free) at work everday and my salad... a salad that costs $5 (although I can put many toppings eg. meat on it) vs. buying a $3 bag of leaves and make my own salad. I should put every dollar I have towards debt that would be ideal... but it's that time thing too, don't have to prep my lunch/carry an extra bag. Also can just make more money.

Like my car, should I not have bought an $800 RD and $1K on tires or just put that towards the car loan... idk. I enjoy a fast car though.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#173

Post by altruios »

skirmish wrote: post #48
chromacity wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're attributing to frugality might be a more a matter of age? Many older folks are just wary of change. I'm not that old, but every time I upgrade my PC or phone, some of my workflows break and I need to pointlessly re-learn things I'd rather not re-learn. UI buttons get moved around, icons change, some settings are removed and others are added... this was exciting the first ten or twenty times, but i…

> my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again" I must be young at heart while >60 years old; my reaction was "why is everybody whining about it, it's pretty nice, I like it". Same with jj vs git, jj is amazing!

Never heard of JJ, why is it better than git, and how did you learn about it?

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#174

Post by the_snooze »

terrabitz wrote: post #115

This is one of the reasons I like YNAB (both their app and their method). One of their core principles is to align your spending -- including future spending, aka saving -- with your values. Spending on the wrong things isn't good, but neither is saving without clear purpose. My wife and I both came from fairly frugal households growing up, so frugality is often our default. It's been a helpful exercise to periodical…

This is really the heart of it. Understand what matters to you, and align your finances (and decisions as a whole) with that. If you optimize for some external metric without examining your own values, you're basically adrift.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#175

Post by mbrameld »

square_usual wrote: post #137
anticorporate wrote: post #118

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling g…

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…

> I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s.

I think this is a lie that people who are bad with money tell themselves, that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#176

Post by SoftTalker »

kashunstva wrote: post #69
freetime2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits. My mother, for ex…

My own parents are in their late 90’s. Because they grew up in the wake of the Great Depression, I always assumed their extreme frugality was a function of the economic distress in their formative years. They also properly accounted for the fact that old-age care is very expensive. Parenthetically, most do not seem to anticipate that accelerated burn rate near the EOL. It’s also a phase whose duration is hard to pred…

It's made harder in that every aspect of services for the elderly is oriented at extracting all their wealth before they die.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#177

Post by ge96 »

mbrameld wrote: post #175
square_usual wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…

> I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. I think this is a lie that people who are bad with money tell themselves, that the only two options available are to spend without restraint or live miserably frugal.

Age is a thing, can't do as many of the fun physical things when you're a lot older

Aging is a nasty thing ugh, the way your bones get weak and your spine curls and you see old people hunched looking down at the ground when they walk

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#178

Post by square_usual »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #169
square_usual wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…

FIRE is achieved primarily by not buying a lot of "stuff". Living a great life and having incredible experiences is relatively inexpensive and you don't need a lot of expensive stuff to do it. If you are being miserable then you're doing it wrong. FIRE should really just be a continuation of what you are already doing, just with less responsibility and financial risk. It isn't about saving up for a permanent vacation…

> It isn't about saving up for a permanent vacation. It shouldn't even be conceptualized as a "vacation".

"Permanent vacation" is permanent time off work, not a holiday. If you're continuing doing what you're doing, why quit? Why not just keep working and save 25% of your income instead of being frugal, saving 40-50% and retiring early to stay frugal? If you're the kind of person who is hard working enough to make good money, you're not going to enjoy retirement and living a "mundane" life - you might as well keep working on something you're passionate about and make money off it.

The only reason to FIRE is if your life's grand ambition somehow cannot be monetized at all, which in the current day is harder and harder to conceive.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#179

Post by SoftTalker »

insensible wrote: post #83
VladVladikoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the winter for this. My thermostat is set to 16C at night. I prefer if the heat never even kicks on, it’s noisy and disruptive to have air blowing through the vents. I wish there was AC that could make my house that cold at night while making no noise!

Going on your Slavic username: as an American who moved to a country without forced-air HVAC, it’s been quite a revelation to discover how backwards forced air really is.

Forced air is pretty necessary for air conditioning (cooling).

For heat, radiant is nicer. But most people don't want to pay to have two completely separate climate control infrastructures in their house.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#180

Post by square_usual »

neogodless wrote: post #168
square_usual wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery…

> many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery instead of learning to be okay with living life when they can Source for this assertion? I've been in contact with various people at various points on the FIRE journey, and I haven't seen a lot that go "too far" towards being miserly, cheap, and miserable. Especially when they are high earners like the parent comment. They live lifestyle…

The point of FIRE isn't that you invest in your future. I think it's unreasonable to say the opposite of FIRE is to save nothing, when it is in fact saving at good rate while aiming to retire in your 60s. My point is that aiming to retire early - like 20 years early, when you're in you're 40s and still eager to work - is likely to make your life miserable if you're the kind of person who actually enjoys work and can commit to goals like FIRE. That's what I've seen in communities I know where people FIRE. Hell, I know many people in my parents' generation who retired in their 60s and still want to work, and end up not dipping into their savings at all.

I'm sure there's tons of people who love being on a FIRE path. It's a lovely goal with self-reinforcing metrics that is easily gamified. And I bet your first year off work also feels great, which is why I encourage everyone to take a sabbatical every 10 or so years.

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