Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Waymo in Portland

waymo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 607 posts

Re: Waymo in Portland

#171

Post by JuniperMesos »

starkparker wrote: post #127

For context, this is coming in as TriMet is laying off staff, reducing service frequency, eliminating bus lines, and cutting parts of light rail routes due to a $300M budget shortfall. The cuts were exacerbated by state Republicans getting a proposed payroll tax repeal onto the ballot next month; TriMet relies heavily on payroll taxes that are deeply unpopular among the self-employed and small business owners, so the…

Yup, it is genuinely convenient that Waymo doesn't rely on an unpopular payroll tax for funding while the bus system does, and also doesn't have human drivers who need to be paid subject to the laws of the city of Portland. But it doesn't actually matter all that much what is going on municipally in Portland at the moment - Waymo (or ideally, a wide variety of competing robotaxi services) should exist everywhere in the country and be as widely available as cars and roads themselves. And eventually this will happen; the concept that Waymo entering a new local market is a newsworthy event is a temporary state of affairs.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#172

Post by Karrot_Kream »

JeremyNT wrote: post #125
catlover76 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Isn't Amtrak that, but just geographically-scoped? Isn't Caltrain workable? Subways also function fine in NYC, DC, Boston, and even LA (to be clear, I don't think the other poster is correct that having trains would satisfy the desire of the guy who wants a self-driving Rivian. I consider his want/need there to be fundamentally different)

Amtrak (where it exists) is often deprioritized for freight travel, and other times is often limited to extremely low speeds, resulting in extremely slow travel. Your road trips are only possible if you have extremely relaxed time constraints and specific destinations in mind. Fees are also very high for such a slow option. As for the future, well... it is bleak. This administration is actively trying to block transi…

Amtrak simply leases the lines in the West from freight providers rather than owning the track outright. The reason Amtrak can offer so much better service in the Northeast Corridor is because they own the track. Incidentally the NEC is the only part of Amtrak operating at a profit.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#173

Post by bitpush »

fhka wrote: post #132
Cider9986 wrote: post #119

Thank goodness that Waymo has no plans to use the cameras recording you in the car for targeted ads. I will feel so secure and private being recorded at all angles in a car I don't own and can't sue. "Waymo: ‘no plans’ to use in-car camera data for targeted ads" ( https://www.theverge.com/news/644770/waymo-interior-camera-a... )

I also don't understand why people aren't more upset about the privacy issues. They have your whole travel data, your face, your voice, "private" conversations. And the people in the Philippines who can intervene in the "self" driving can comment on your bodily features if bored.

> I also don't understand why people aren't more upset about the privacy issues.

Because nobody is forcing you to take a Waymo? I dont think it is as hard to understand.

Its like saying "You dont understand why people arent more upset about spicy food because your stomach cant handle it.."

Re: Waymo in Portland

#174

Post by QuercusMax »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #170
QuercusMax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to get MORE people onto the trains, not fewer.

Has it been shown that screaming drugged out homeless riders avoid the presence of crowds? Is there any physical mechanism where having more people on the trains leads to Daniel-Penny-like suppression of drugged out homeless riders? Or does "getting more people onto the trains" just mean removing their options until they are forced to ignore the drugged out homeless riders? As a solution, "get MORE people onto the tr…

Safety in numbers. There's a reason there's not an issue during the day and during heavy commute hours.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#175

Post by xnx »

nostrademons wrote: post #143
xnx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The longer-term possible second-order effects are going to be wild. Easier t o get to wilderness? Awesome!, but also crowding like you've never seen (but maybe also more small parks because there will be a glut of unused parking).

I don't see why one of those second-order effects wouldn't be the death of car ownership, with everyone using a rideshare service instead. Hell, that's the business model for Waymo and almost everyone other than Tesla in the autonomous-vehicle industry. It just doesn't make sense to own your own vehicle, use it for ~2 hours/day, and have to worry about parking/storing/fueling/maintaining it when you could have a serv…

> The future looks an awful lot like intermodal containers for people.

Love this concept.

As self-driving vehicles become a larger share of road use, roads can be more efficiently designed just for them: no speed limit, just 2 strips of pavement for the tires, no signage or striping, etc.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#176

Post by Barbing »

fragmede wrote: post #139
superfrank wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, in SF they're slightly more expensive before tip, but having ridden in them in SF, LA, and AZ I've always felt they were cheaper. Over the long run, they will probably end up being cheaper from the wholesale perspective since eventually the parts and technology cost will come down with time and scale while human wages will continue to rise. That said, it doesn't really matter if they're cheaper as long as they'…

Alphabet/Google/Waymo is a technology business, with emphasis on business. They're not running a charity. They're in it to make money. If it's a $20 Uber ride to somewhere, they're not going to leave money on the table and charge $10 because they don't have a driver to pay. They're going to charge $22 for the premium experience because they know people will pay that.

That sounds right. Passenger pays for lower risk, etc. The market sees the company making $2 extra and a competitor will see if they can do it for just $1 extra.

(nobody would confuse me with an economist!)

Re: Waymo in Portland

#177

Post by QuercusMax »

jeffbee wrote: post #94
darquomiahw wrote: post #69

Why would anyone take a Waymo when you can ride the Trimet MAX for $2.50?

Because MAX is on rails it can and does come to a complete halt for indefinite periods of time whenever some jackass in an Escalade parks it on the track. I know this firsthand and I only lived in Portland for one month.

Are you sure you're not thinking of the Portland streetcar? Max does not have nearly the same issues.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#178

Post by xnx »

guywithahat wrote: post #126
boc wrote: post #4

I've determined that my ultimate dream car would be something like a Rivian but with Waymo tech, so I can drive it manually when I want/need (snowstorms, off-road), but I can also let it drive me across the country at night while I camp in the back. Would absolutely change the way we move across the US, especially if you have hobbies that involve a lot of gear and equipment.

> I've determined that my ultimate dream car would be something like a Rivian but with Waymo tech So a Tesla? I think your dream is pretty common, since they make the most popular vehicle in the world

It will be amazing if they get self-driving working. Currently, you can't even sit in the back seat.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#179

Post by ssl-3 »

catlover76 wrote: post #113
JeremyNT wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least 80% of what you’re describing would be satisfied by trains and buses. It’s wild that Americans are so obsessed with self-driving cars while ignoring public transit that solves most of the problems. It’s reliable, more efficient, better for the environment, and less stressful for you. As an American, it's far easier to imagine autonomous robot driven road trips than it is to imagine a government that is com…

Why? Isn't Amtrak that, but just geographically-scoped? Isn't Caltrain workable? Subways also function fine in NYC, DC, Boston, and even LA (to be clear, I don't think the other poster is correct that having trains would satisfy the desire of the guy who wants a self-driving Rivian. I consider his want/need there to be fundamentally different)

The remaining dregs of Amtrak are the result of the nationalization of the failing private passenger lines in the US.

We used to have passenger rail. Even the desolate nowhere of semi-rural Ohio was well-served. Street cars to get around town, inter-urbans to get between nearby towns, and proper passenger trains to get to points far-away.

It didn't work out. There's reasons why it didn't work, like the literal conspiracy between General Motors and Firestone Tire that deliberately sought to destroy it.

Whatever those reasons were, they are are behind us. So it may seem superficially easy to just put it all back... but it isn't.

When the lines stopped being used, we tore them out. They're gone. And where the lines are gone, old stations are also mostly gone. Cities had once been built around (and because of) rail, but were subsequently built for cars as time marched forward and things continued to expand.

In some cases, whole communities have disappeared in the transition away from rail. In many other cases, we let our central stations decay and rot or demolished them to make space for things like convention centers.

So what's left is what we have: We have cars.

It's easy for me to see a future where I can buy a car and curl up in the back seat with a movie (and maybe a cocktail) while it ferries me from A to B.

That's a future I might actually live long enough to see, and it appears to be inevitable.

And I'd love to be freed of the chains of having to drive myself from A to B.

But I'll be dead and buried before we get passenger rail to be even 1/10th of what it once was.

So I choose to dream practical dreams. I can only play the hand I'm dealt.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#180

Post by JuniperMesos »

starkparker wrote: post #158
jrflowers wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo shows up with a convenient solution to both problems. No it didn’t. Bus rides cost $2.80 in Portland.

And in August, the bus line that serves my neighborhood completely goes away, and the next closest bus line with stops 2 miles away will end weekday service after 6:30 p.m. and weekend service altogether. I don't give a fuck if it's free, if it's inaccessible. I'm not crossing SE Foster on a rainy evening to catch a bus that won't take me home afterward.

The bus system would almost certainly be better if it did cost a somewhat-significant amount of money, because one of the biggest problems with public transit in the US is marginalized people getting on public transit and acting in ways that are unpleasant and disruptive to everyone else using it (think about a homeless drug addict passing out on the bus while splayed across several seats; or a schizophrenic screaming incoherently at everyone nearby and threatening to kill them). Having a meaningful fare and consistently enforcing payment of that fare keeps these people off of transit and makes the experience of being in an enclosed space with strangers better for everyone else.
Post reply on HN