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Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#171

Post by eightysixfour »

rglullis wrote: post #162
eightysixfour wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am doing a pure software-to-software comparison. I would argue this is impossible at this point. Most of the benefits of the entire Apple ecosystem are about integration - Macbook Pros are the fastest machines with the best battery life because of the great hardware but also the software integration. > There was no application in the MacOS desktop that made me feel like I was missing out on something. Of all the…

If you are willing to give the advantage to MacOS due to the integration with the hardware, then you should only judge Linux when provided on hardware from Linux-centric vendors like system76, Tuxedo, Starlite and Framework.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#172

Post by mschuster91 »

omcnoe wrote: post #83
kakwa_ wrote: post #71

While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical. I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora. These kinds of reverse…

I think there is also the added challenge that ARM macs are a moving target, and Apple has less than no desire to provide any kind of stability or support for Asahi Linux. Unlike the PC space where laptop manufacturers have to maintain broad compatibility over time, Apple will make future changes that are really awkward for Asahi and will not care one bit because they can do the compat work on their own software.

> Unlike the PC space where laptop manufacturers have to maintain broad compatibility over time

LOL

If anything Apple is infamous for keeping around hardware blocks for as long as they can. IIRC the serial port driver for everything Apple ARM dates back to the very first generations of iPods.

Of course Apple will remain a moving target, but they are orders of magnitude more stable than everyone else in the non-x86 universe.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#173

Post by applfanboysbgon »

rowanG077 wrote: post #64
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is weird to blame the victim for reacting to being harassed by a mob. That is a normal thing to have a reaction to. Perhaps rather than blaming people's social skills and mental health, we should instead blame the culture that normalises harassing people on the internet, even to the point of suicide (as happened in byuu's case). You are basically advocating that it is better for individuals to change to accept a s…

This is not a dichotomy. It's not healthy to take random online comments to heart so much. It's also bad to make such ridiculous comments. Both can be true at the same time.

This diminishes what "random online comments" are. They aren't just text on a screen. They represent words that another human being has said about you. Often, words that will convince other human beings, who may take different actions or view you differently because of what they've been told, which will in turn spread virally and alter how thousands and thousands of humans see you and act towards you.

Humans are a social species. It is easy to say "just don't be social bro". When you are actually the victim of this behaviour, it is much less easy to shrug off. Having a bunch of people hate you and say horrible things about you hurts. That's not abnormal. That is perfectly normal. Is it good for your health? No, in the same way that somebody smoking next to me is not good for my health, but it's not my fault the person next to me is smoking. The blame rests with them. To some extent, yes, stepping away from the smoker is a short-term fix, although often an unpleasant one that impacts your quality of life in other ways (what if the restaraunt you like is full of smokers, what if the airport is full of smokers, etc). In the same way society eventually changed to discourage smoking around other people, we really, really need to change the culture around the internet, to recognise that the internet is actually a social environment, that there are real people on both sides of the screen. "Go touch grass" implies that the internet is not the real world, but it very much is, with real consequences, even if you can't see the other person.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#174

Post by rglullis »

eightysixfour wrote: post #171
rglullis wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to give the advantage to MacOS due to the integration with the hardware, then you should only judge Linux when provided on hardware from Linux-centric vendors like system76, Tuxedo, Starlite and Framework.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does. If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.

> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

It's the inverse. You claim that Apple "just works" for you and that Linux doesn't. I am saying that if you want to lend credibility to your argument, you need to use hardware that has a certifying vendor behind it.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#175

Post by gigatexal »

bigyabai wrote: post #168
gigatexal wrote: post #141

I am both a monthly supporter of the Asahi project and a full-time macOS user. Why? I love to support hackers. But I am also a realist and have given up on the idea of a linux laptop that "just works" and have embraced teh first party experience of the wholly integrated software and hardware experience of the apple ecosystem. am I just a smooth brained dumb dumb that has drunk the koolaid? perhaps. but I don't lose s…

> But I am also a realist and have given up on the idea of a linux laptop that "just works" I mean, if you only use laptops that are explicitly unsupported by the Linux kernel then I could see what gave you that impression.

I had a P14 Thinkpad for work and had all sorts of issues with Wayland and streaming and what not. There's no issues on the Mac side things just work.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#176

Post by bigyabai »

gigatexal wrote: post #175
bigyabai wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I am also a realist and have given up on the idea of a linux laptop that "just works" I mean, if you only use laptops that are explicitly unsupported by the Linux kernel then I could see what gave you that impression.

I had a P14 Thinkpad for work and had all sorts of issues with Wayland and streaming and what not. There's no issues on the Mac side things just work.

Does it have a dGPU? My simple Intel iGPU Thinkpad hasn't had any noticeable Wayland-related issues in the past 3-4 years.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#177

Post by flomo »

kakwa_ wrote: post #71

While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical. I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora. These kinds of reverse…

What everyone is missing is any org who pays Ubuntu or RedHat for support is going to buy officially supported hardware from Lenovo, Dell, Framework or etc. Asahi is a cool project, but there's zero money in it.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#178

Post by jasomill »

ryandrake wrote: post #132
kccqzy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following is actually the most surprising part to me. > This is quite limiting, as it forces PipeWire to waste CPU cycles (and therefore battery life) on resampling audio streams that are not either 48 or 96 kHz. So the Asahi team thinks that only supporting 48 or 96 kHz wastes battery life by forcing the software to resample audio streams. But why does Apple still do this? Presumably Apple has a very high commit…

Always possible that it's the standard commercial software company reason: They do know about it and have a P2 bug tracking it, but the team that maintains that code has 5000 other things to do, and it never gets fixed.

More likely it’s that 48 kHz is a more sensible default, since the majority of non-music digital audio is sampled at 48 kHz, almost anyone who cares about potential audio artifacts introduced by resampling is going to be using an external DAC, and (from an Apple-centric viewpoint) almost anyone concerned about the energy consumption of music playback on their MacBook is going to listen to music on their iPhone instead.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#179

Post by rowanG077 »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #173
rowanG077 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a dichotomy. It's not healthy to take random online comments to heart so much. It's also bad to make such ridiculous comments. Both can be true at the same time.

This diminishes what "random online comments" are . They aren't just text on a screen. They represent words that another human being has said about you. Often, words that will convince other human beings, who may take different actions or view you differently because of what they've been told, which will in turn spread virally and alter how thousands and thousands of humans see you and act towards you. Humans are a s…

I agree it would be much better if online culture improved, and I don’t think anyone would argue against that. The difficulty is that change at that scale tends to be slow and unpredictable, on the order of decades, so you can't rely on it in the short term.

Because of that I think there’s value in focusing on what individuals can control, like setting boundaries, disengaging when things get overwhelming, or stepping away from spaces that become unhealthy.

That doesn’t mean the behavior is acceptable, or that people should just tolerate it. It’s more about acknowledging that, while broader change is important, taking steps to protect yourself is the only immediate and reliable option.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#180

Post by nothinkjustai »

rglullis wrote: post #85
mapleleaf1921 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've run all 3 major OSes before. MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works. My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. My windows days were plagued with battery issues. I feel like most Linux ricers wishs for a MacOS-like experience, except with more customisation. (Which is entirely possible now with the ricing on Mac)

> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. This is the kind of dated argument that really makes me dismiss most of the critics. I was running xubuntu as my main desktop since 2010 at least, switched to Debian + nix + XFCE in 2022 and switched to full-on nixOS in 2024. I never had issues with audio then and had to go out of my way to "break" audio on…

Idk, I tried Linux last year and couldn’t get my USB wifi to work, even bought a new one that claimed to support Linux, and even tried an entirely new distro (went from Arch to Mint) and still had major problems. Windows handled it just fine.

That combined with a lack of good creative software on Linux kind of kills it for me. I’d rather use it than Windows, but MacOS seems like the best option currently.

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