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EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

juraj.bednar.io

171–180 of 222 posts

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#171
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that enforced ?

It doesn't need to. Those recordings are "radioactive" and can't be used in any legitimate fashion except by intelligence agencies.

Plenty of data brokers operating outside of the EU who wouldn't mind the "toxicity" of the data they buy.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#172
post #25
post #7

> In any case, it was always presented as a toolbox that countries should adapt into their apps – so judging the app by itself does not make much sense, it depends on how these techniques are implemented in each country’s verification app. There will be no single EU app, despite what the honchos of EU say. Even more reason to make the "demo" app do things correctly because it's very unlikely that all member states ac…

> A simple solution is just not providing your kids with a phone or computer. That’s not a solution. Nowadays many schools require access to a computer.

Putting the computer in a common room addresses this case as they have access but the public space adds a level of restraint.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#173
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need to. Those recordings are "radioactive" and can't be used in any legitimate fashion except by intelligence agencies.

Plenty of data brokers operating outside of the EU who wouldn't mind the "toxicity" of the data they buy.

Or, I should say, things are enforced after the fact, through the possibility of criminal charges or civil lawsuits. Enforcement doesn't mean that crime is made impossible, just that there is enough deterrent.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#174
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the same. For instance, we can access the internet without needing that ID. But right now there are attempts to force a digital ID in order to access information on the www - this is the whole idea behind "age verification". The kids are just used as excuse here. It has never been about the kids.

I think you're jumping to conclusions that aren't supported by the digital ID proposal. Even with that: There's plenty of services dangerous to kids that we gate behind an ID check and I don't particularly see why internet is special in any way.

You think bad actors are going to plainly spell out their nefarious intentions? Or worse, the misinformed reactionaries that genuinely believe they're doing good.

No one claimed the internet should receive special treatment. The two forms of ID check that you're attempting to equate aren't the same.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#175
post #72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System checking it just verifies the signature is valid and thus all data presented is valid? Your browser doesn't need to query any Root CAs to trust SSL certificate, https works without internet. History of entry and visas/etc could be stored on device as well

If you want to argue for a theoretical system that is self-contained, only relies on the data that is present on either the physical (or the theoretical cryptographically signed digital) passport, you're free to do that. But in the real world, the systems that deal with processing people's entries already cross-reference multiple other existing databases, require internet connectivity to do so, and I think you'll hav…

They check opportunistically but they are capable of operating without doing so.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#176
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

> And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing. Not really. Government is not Big Tech. This happens with accounts of some tech companies precisely because they're private entities setting their own rules in the still wild "wild west" of the Internet. Governments set…

In both Canada and the US we had people who were "de-banked" in recent years because the government was irritated with them. No trial. No hearing. Just a letter from the bank saying "We don't want your business anymore. Here's a cashier's check with your balance." In Canada at least some of the accounts were actually frozen. "Yes, we have your money, but no you can't have any of it."

In the US there's a requirement for banks to refuse to do business with anyone who would be a "reputational risk". I think it was intended to suppress money laundering. Anyway, when the government calls and says such and such a client represents a reputational risk, the bank doesn't have any choice.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but here in the US you'd be hard pressed to function normally in society without a credit card and bank account.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#177
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

They already do this. KYC, and similar laws. You can't open a bank account in 2026 (at least in the USA) without ID. You can't get credit, open an investment account, buy a house, vote, or be employed without an ID. A proper digital ID would eliminate a lot of problems we now have with identity theft, having to obsessively protect names, dates of birth, SSNs in our databases (these things were not considered secrets…

A proper digital ID would certainly make things more difficult for thieves, but if someone actually did manage to clone your ID you'd be in a world of hurt, since businesses would start to trust that ID to a greater extent than they trust anything online now.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#178
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of data brokers operating outside of the EU who wouldn't mind the "toxicity" of the data they buy.

Or, I should say, things are enforced after the fact, through the possibility of criminal charges or civil lawsuits. Enforcement doesn't mean that crime is made impossible, just that there is enough deterrent.

Except there isn't enough deterrent.

The big companies are still mining user data, they are just forced to use some extra dark patterns to trick people into compliance. Would-be criminals are not going to stop being criminals because of the threat of fines. And TLAs are not going to wait for due process to acquire access to data legally.

All that GDPR does is give the illusion that people are being protected and CYA for politicians and bureaucrats when asked "what are you doing about evil Zuckerberg?"

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#179
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A simple solution is just not providing your kids with a phone or computer. That’s not a solution. Nowadays many schools require access to a computer.

Putting the computer in a common room addresses this case as they have access but the public space adds a level of restraint.

They require access to computers at home because the teachers send the homework per web platform.

Also the class schedule including the substitutes are communicated per smartphone app

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