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America's Geothermal Breakthrough

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Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#171

Post by the_why_of_y »

nandomrumber wrote: post #159
the_why_of_y wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian households will be able to access free electricity for three hours every day, in an effort to encourage energy use when excess solar power is being fed into the grid. The federal government scheme will require retailers to offer free electricity to households for at least three hours in the middle of the day, when there is often more electricity generated than is being used, leading to very cheap or even n…

Free electricity in the middle of the day. That’ll come in handy for the, actually way too many people, who are home during the middle of the day. And how does that help people who already have solar? Free electricity in the middle of the day doesn’t really help them. And, actually, has this been implemented yet? It’s been 6 months since it was announced.

Moving the goalposts.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#173

Post by idontwantthis »

smallerize wrote: post #71
idontwantthis wrote: post #56

Is 150GW enough for a “revolution”? That’s about 10% of current total power production.

Solar is at 7%. It's very significant.

That’s my point. Solar is on track to eclipse that amount way before we would build all of this speculative geothermal.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#174

Post by defrost »

idontwantthis wrote: post #173
smallerize wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar is at 7%. It's very significant.

That’s my point. Solar is on track to eclipse that amount way before we would build all of this speculative geothermal.

Just make everything part of the mix, even dam to dam hydro on rural hillsides plays a part in stabilising grid edges.

The more interesting use of geothermal power, IMO, is pushing heat underground with excess solar while the sun is high and the days are long, and pulling out electricity from heat in the darker times .. done large enough that carries across summer to winter.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#175

Post by nandomrumber »

the_why_of_y wrote: post #171
nandomrumber wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free electricity in the middle of the day. That’ll come in handy for the, actually way too many people, who are home during the middle of the day. And how does that help people who already have solar? Free electricity in the middle of the day doesn’t really help them. And, actually, has this been implemented yet? It’s been 6 months since it was announced.

Moving the goalposts.

Well, has it been implemented?

I found this https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/three-hours-free-power-every-...

Which claims: This could save families up to $300 per year off their energy bills, and up to $1,070 if they have solar panels and batteries. Victoria’s Midday Power Saver offer will be available from 1 October 2026.

Oh look, you may save more if you already have solar and batteries. Yet another wealth transfer from the have-nots to the haves. Typical.

If you’re poor you could save up to less than a dollar a day.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#176

Post by stephen_g »

zdragnar wrote: post #148
Y-bar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid about EUR 4500 for a 114 meter drill hole including installation of brine (ethanol in my case actually) and removal of spoils. My 8kW heat+water pump was about EUR 7000. I can spec out a gas burner for about EUR 4000 and a central AC for EUR 5000, but I bet the efficiency of the ground source heater would quickly trump the cost of buying gas regularly.

That's insanely cheap compared to what we can get around here. Most installs I've heard of from people in the US are in the $20-50,000 range, depending on the size of their home and number of wells needed.

I don’t know what’s going on with this kind of stuff in the US - similarly I’ve heard stories of people getting quotes in the States for anything from US$10-15K for the kind of air source mini-split heat pumps you can have supplied and installed for US $1200-2000 in Australia! (That is ~3.5 to 7 kW range - super common and cheap as chips here).

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#177

Post by GJim »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

> The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned underground - about 20° or 25° warmer.

I read this several times in the context of _geothermal_ energy, and had no clue what you were talking about.

Then I realised, you must be an American and use 'freedom units', coupled with a misunderstanding of what geothermal means.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#178

Post by lambdaone »

Animats wrote: post #9
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

Shallow geothermal works fine for heating. And you can use the ground as a heat sink. But if you want to generate power, you need to get down to where temperatures can boil water. That's deeper than most oil wells. Fervo Energy claims to have found 270C at 3350 meters well depth. That's progress.

There are so many ways around this - for a start, you can use some other working fluid that boils at a lower temperature. Or you can choose a different thermodynamic cycle that doesn't involve phase change.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#179

Post by [deleted] »

msandford wrote: post #152
ksec wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know why this keeps coming up? It is a closed loop system. The water aren't used at all.

It's a closed loop on the geo side sure. How do you cool the steam off enough to condense so it can go and be boiler feed water again? Lots of power plants use cooling towers for this which are typically evaporative. Some are dry, sure, but most are wet.

[deleted]

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#180

Post by burkaman »

nandomrumber wrote: post #159
the_why_of_y wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian households will be able to access free electricity for three hours every day, in an effort to encourage energy use when excess solar power is being fed into the grid. The federal government scheme will require retailers to offer free electricity to households for at least three hours in the middle of the day, when there is often more electricity generated than is being used, leading to very cheap or even n…

Free electricity in the middle of the day. That’ll come in handy for the, actually way too many people, who are home during the middle of the day. And how does that help people who already have solar? Free electricity in the middle of the day doesn’t really help them. And, actually, has this been implemented yet? It’s been 6 months since it was announced.

It starts on July 1st of this year: https://www.dcceew.gov.au/about/news/solar-sharer-offer-help...
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