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The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

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Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#171

Post by _doctor_love »

decimalenough wrote: post #169
_doctor_love wrote: post #144

Generally speaking I am a classical liberal in that I believe "vices" like drugs, pornography, prostitution should be legal in order to be regulated and in the open. It cannot eliminate abuse but it can help mitigate it. What I would LOVE to see in the United States in particular is a system where we tax pornography and then plow that money back into sex education in public schools. The state of sex education in the…

Uh, pornography is legal in the US and providers do pay taxes.

Good observation, now connect it to the next piece I said.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#172

Post by vogelke »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #136
PaulHoule wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nuanced. When I was a kid I really enjoyed Scarne's books about gambling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scarne which were written in an era when most of the gambling in the US was illegal and run by organized crime, Las Vegas was small, Atlantic City new, and New Hampshire the first state to get a lottery. Like prostitution, gambling needs a rather sophisticated criminal network, a parallel system of law-and…

> but in the Fentanyl age I see people dropping like flies all around me Fentanyl is a response to prohibition. If you have to smuggle something it's a lot easier to move 10 kg of fentanyl and cut it with something near the point of sale than to move 10,000 kg of codeine from the point of manufacture. But then you have street dealers cutting it with who knows what in who knows what amount. They may use a 1000:1 ratio…

Exactly. Legal drugs get weaker because you can exchange information about minimum required dosages (saving money) without risking arrest.

Illegal drugs get stronger for exactly the reason you stated in your first paragraph.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#173

Post by hn_acc1 »

jmkd wrote: post #43
malfist wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, why isn't the line so clear for you? We're talking about a product built to make people's lives worse while extracting wealth from them that get them addicted as well.

Okay sounds like we agree that sugar and junk food should be on the wrong side of the line, but turns out those industries have very little stigma. Who is standing outside the school gates protesting against big cola? My point is it's complicated, ambiguous, sometimes hypocritical, differs by jurisdiction and so on. None of it is clear.

There have been pushes to remove soda from school vending machines, limit the size / add extra taxes on bigger soda containers, etc. But it's often "crazy California" doing it, so a whole chunk of the country writes it off as political or something, or it doesn't get passed due to lobbying, etc. But it's not true that no one is trying to stop it.

As much as I like a cold Coke (Coke >>> Pepsi :-) on a hot day, I also realize it's bad for me, and I'm drinking a lot more Spindrift these days. And despite the fact that I rarely drink more than say, 2 cans a day (i.e. I can generally control it), I would still vote to limit the amount of sugar in any beverage to like 1/10 that of Coke, just for general health reasons. Of course, then stores will probably see an uptick in sugar cube sales or something.. Gotta feed the addiction.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#174

Post by hn_acc1 »

mcmcmc wrote: post #118
jmkd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay sounds like we agree that sugar and junk food should be on the wrong side of the line, but turns out those industries have very little stigma. Who is standing outside the school gates protesting against big cola? My point is it's complicated, ambiguous, sometimes hypocritical, differs by jurisdiction and so on. None of it is clear.

Ah yes, the great evil of sugar… which our bodies require for energy. Seriously, your brain needs glucose. Ask a diabetic if sugar is evil

You mean, like hyperglycemia?

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#175

Post by Karrot_Kream »

fasterik wrote: post #155
gwbas1c wrote: post #117

Wow, I'm shocked at the negative attitudes in this thread. Porn and gambling are legit businesses, even if you don't like it. (And some people used to argue that part of the rise of the PC was because some people bought it as a "porn machine.") It's important to keep these things (almost) in the open, because when they become illegal, criminals move in and people get hurt. When I was an intern at a big-name, conserva…

I've also been shocked by the censoriousness around gambling in particular on HN recently. I feel like this is filtering in from some culture war that I'm not exposed to as a part of my information diet.

There's been a spate of articles on left leaning sites about the harms of prediction markets and gambling over the last 6 months or so, along with a tie to the current admin to glaze the article among anti-Trump and anti-corruption people.

One thing I've noticed about HN in recent years is if publications (right or left) start posting about something, the topic turns quickly into flamewar territory. What used to be subtle debate turns into slogans copy/pasted from these articles along with hyperbole. Hard to avoid I guess with how big HN has become.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#176

Post by hn_acc1 »

egorfine wrote: post #65
malfist wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, why isn't the line so clear for you? We're talking about a product built to make people's lives worse while extracting wealth from them that get them addicted as well.

The majority of food sold in the US satisfies the criteria you have laid out here. Is the line still clear?

I would like the majority of food sold in the US to improve in quality. I would support passing legislation to force the issue.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#177

Post by hn_acc1 »

egorfine wrote: post #63
sakisv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original person you replied to, but as far as I'm concerned there are a few questions that could very easily indicate which side of the line is something. E.g. - Is it addictive? - Does it have the potential to destroy lives? - Does it have the potential to destroy lives in seconds? - Does it have a strong lobbying mechanism behind it? (n.b. things that are good and nice rarely need someone to bribe people to…

These questions sound very rational until you realize that sugar, performance cars, military technology and history lessons can tick all those boxes.

Ok, so add "is it easy / quick / cheap to acquire?". Performance cars (I take measured risks at the race track) and track days / race tires aren't cheap. Not in any sense of the word.

Unsafe driving in ANY car? Yes - but that's already illegal.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#178

Post by pjc50 »

fasterik wrote: post #155
gwbas1c wrote: post #117

Wow, I'm shocked at the negative attitudes in this thread. Porn and gambling are legit businesses, even if you don't like it. (And some people used to argue that part of the rise of the PC was because some people bought it as a "porn machine.") It's important to keep these things (almost) in the open, because when they become illegal, criminals move in and people get hurt. When I was an intern at a big-name, conserva…

I've also been shocked by the censoriousness around gambling in particular on HN recently. I feel like this is filtering in from some culture war that I'm not exposed to as a part of my information diet.

The advertising of gambling is becoming a problem in itself. I'm mostly adblocking and even I'm aware of it.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#179

Post by hn_acc1 »

bilekas wrote: post #53
watwut wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlicensed casinos and betting apps harm others.

So would an Unlicensed Speakeasy, but I can't include them in the post or else everything would be destructive. I'm not defending Gambling at all, just highlighting there is a difference in how they are allowed to behave, which I also don't agree with. Asking a casino to behave better is never going to work, adding more regulations and stricter licensing might. The fact that betting companies are now allowed to adver…

Yes to that last part. It's made watching sports much less enjoyable to see/hear constant gambling ads. And it's not like they're charging any less for the product (mlb.tv, for example) - quite the opposite: they are making it harder to watch all the games by putting some of them on apple.tv, etc.

Re: The operating cost of adult and gambling startups

#180

Post by TZubiri »

3form wrote: post #11
A_Duck wrote: post #3

What's the author trying to say here? It's good that the law isn't the only line between good and evil. A bit of stigma is a bottom-up way for people to shape society. If nobody invites you to dinner parties because you run a startup that combines payday-lending and day-trading, that's a good thing. It's free alpha for companies doing more worthwhile things.

I don't like mixing of everything 18+ in the article. I think the author wants to put all the stigma in one basket, and I don't it's as simple. For example, porn meets some actual human needs and has a certain function - but gambling? Simple abuse at scale. I think like you argue, society shaping business is good. And some people should really reevaluate what they're going for if that's too much for them.

More importantly, one is legal, the other isn't, running a casino without a license is illegal and you can face criminal charges and jailtime, which I don't think is the case for operating a porn studio. This is regardless of the ethics, I'm actually pro gambling and anti porn, but that's the law is all I am saying, and I don't think it's a trivial difference, and for sure the author is bucketing to downplay their 'stigma'.

No buddy, not the same.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

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