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Using the internet like it's 1999

joshblais.com

171–180 of 203 posts

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#171

I've come to the conclusion that nostalgia is almost never about the objective quality of something. It's about the associations we make between a certain time in our lives and the media/technology that surrounded us at the time. It's also filtered through selective memory, emphasizing the positive while ignoring the negative. We're all afraid of dying and we all wish we were 25 years younger. That's how I translate…

"the world is better than it's ever been, technology is better than it's ever been, and it's all continuing to get better."

Those guys in Sudan or blue whales beg to differ.

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#172

the nostalgia for 1999 isnt really about missing dial up or basic html, its about mourning the loss of user agency. back then the browser actually worked for you. today the client is basically a hostile enviroment running megabytes of third party js just to track telemetry. going back to gopher or text-only browsers feels like admitting defeat tbh. we can still build incredibly fast modern apps if we just stop treati…

"going back to gopher or text-only browsers feels like admitting defeat tbh."

Interesting perspective

I have been using text-only browsers continually since the mid 90s (no lynx after 1999)

As such, I never "went back" to using the text-only browser as I have always used one, but as graphical browsers became worse I used them less

The customised text-only browsers I use today are 1.3 and 2.0 MB. I can compile them in seconds on underpowered computers

The so-called "modern" browser is [rapidly-expanding size] MB, not was easy to customise via editing the source code and takes substantial resources plus time to compile

Today, most www use for me is text-only. I am consuming information not graphics. I prefer textmode to X11 or the like

I avoid making HTTP requests to remote servers with graphical, Javascript-enabled browsers

I prefer using TCP clients and TLS forward proxies for making HTTP requests (at least one forward proxy now even has its own TCP client)

I use the text-only browser to read HTML files

For example, yc.htm is a file I create each day that contains all HN submissions where discussion is still open

Today yc.htm is 12 MB and there are 7268 stories

Using tiny command line utilities I wrote, the HTML in yc.htm is processed to CSV and added to an SQLite database. The unique domain names, today about 3704 of them, are extracted from all item URLs in yc.htm and DNS data is obtained via 1-3 pipelined lookups, each over a single TCP connection. The DNS data is then processed and inserted into an SQLite database

The TLS forward proxy stores the DNS data in memory so that I do not have to make any remote DNS when accessing the www

The yc.htm file can be opened in a text-only browser but I would not attempt it in a graphical one. The text-only browser feels more robust, less likely to stall or crash. I prefer the text-only formatting

By not using a graphical browser I would not say I am "admitting defeat". I have full control over HTTP headers, I only retrieve the data I want, I never see any ads, I do not send data to trackers or telemetry collection points

On the other hand, using a graphical browser does feel like "admitting defeat" as by doing so I allow "web developers" to destroy all preferences I have for how and when I want data retrieved and presented. If I allow the graphical browser unfettered access to the internet, and allow it to run unreviewed Javascripts, I lose all control over DNS and HTTP requests. For me, the experience of using a graphical browser where I have no such control is slow and painful, a horrible "user experience"

I do not see using "old" software as "nostalgia". I see it as being practical. "New" software generally sucks

The loss of "user agency" as some call it only occurs if one uses a so-called "modern" browser and runs Javascript. The seizure of user agency is accomplished by getting people to use a particular "user agent" that is controlled by online advertising companies (e.g., Google) or their business partners (e.g., Mozilla). If we called this a "choice" perhaps some readers might disagree. But so-called "Big Tech" have consistently argued that people "choose" Big Tech's "user agents" that, via their design and "default settings", effectively remove user agency for the majority of people who use them

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#173
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different people have different tastes, or balance the good and the bad of the different eras differently. Personally, I prefer the Internet of the 1990's. Part of that was the novelty and excitement. That led to a lot more experimentation. Part of that was the accessibility of the information that did exist. There was less wading through crap to simply find something, and the useless stuff that did exist tended to b…

I think a lot of people who say stuff like this are really saying that they prefer being in their teens and early 20s. Understandable!

No it's the modern web itself. Signal:noise ratio has become poor (as the article notes). Much more crap to wade through before finding a gem somewhere.

That's ignoring software bloat, super-heavy web frameworks, social media's addictive algorithms, user tracking & what have you.

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#174

I've come to the conclusion that nostalgia is almost never about the objective quality of something. It's about the associations we make between a certain time in our lives and the media/technology that surrounded us at the time. It's also filtered through selective memory, emphasizing the positive while ignoring the negative. We're all afraid of dying and we all wish we were 25 years younger. That's how I translate…

"the world is better than it's ever been, technology is better than it's ever been, and it's all continuing to get better." Those guys in Sudan or blue whales beg to differ.

You can always point at bad things happening, no matter what time period you're in. You need to look at the graph over decades/centuries. Poverty, child mortality, literacy, standard of living, access to healthcare, etc. etc. are all better than they have ever been, even in the poorest places in the world.

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#175
post #61

Are there any decent webrings left, or newly existing?

I thought webrings had died when things like Webring, Ringsurf, Ringo, Rail and others went offline years ago. But there is a new interest in them. I've listed all the ones I know of at https://brisray.com/web/webring-list.htm

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#176

the nostalgia for 1999 isnt really about missing dial up or basic html, its about mourning the loss of user agency. back then the browser actually worked for you. today the client is basically a hostile enviroment running megabytes of third party js just to track telemetry. going back to gopher or text-only browsers feels like admitting defeat tbh. we can still build incredibly fast modern apps if we just stop treati…

In 1999, hostile websites would pop up endless new windows full of advertisements that you were powerless to stop unless you simply held down "ALT+F4" or "CTRL+ALT+DEL". Part of Mozilla Firefox's appeal is that it came with a pop-up blocker. [0] Do you know anything about the Browser Wars? People literally had to put up images telling you which browser to use if you wanted to actually experience their website the way…

Hostile pages did that. Today, nearly every page has a dozen tracking scripts, starts off with a cookie popup, probably pops up a "please log in" or "please give me money" after you scroll half way down, still has ads that even more effectively mimic the site topic and design to trick you into clicking them, pops up a newsletter or cupon code popup if your cursor leaves the viewport, might be secretly running experiments on you by A/B testing titles, images or testimonials...

The assault on your attention is way worse these days, it's just (mostly) contained to the viewport.

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#177
post #58

This is going to come off glib, but I don't think you can believe any of this having actually used the Internet of 1999. As is so often the case, there are lots of real annoyances and offenses behind the sentiment, but still, the Internet of 2026 is vastly better than that of 1999. The amount of things you're just one quick search away from right now would break the brains of a 1999 netizen. We were still required to…

"Reading" the internet then going to buy a book from Borders or Barnes and Noble is a comfy memory to me. I liked the split between 'online' and 'offline' better than this semi-integrated present we live in

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#179

I've come to the conclusion that nostalgia is almost never about the objective quality of something. It's about the associations we make between a certain time in our lives and the media/technology that surrounded us at the time. It's also filtered through selective memory, emphasizing the positive while ignoring the negative. We're all afraid of dying and we all wish we were 25 years younger. That's how I translate…

I think the world really sucks in developed countries right now in a way that's hard to put your finger on. Optimism and enthusiasm is very low in young people right now. People's attention spans are shot. Kids in high school and college are less social than ever, barely date, and spend more and more time doomscrolling. Rising inequality, rise of far right politics, etc.

I get that the world is doing great by some basic metric like 'number of people starving', and that is fantastic. But the world really feels off to a growing number of people - me included - in modern America.

Re: Using the internet like it's 1999

#180
post #58

This is going to come off glib, but I don't think you can believe any of this having actually used the Internet of 1999. As is so often the case, there are lots of real annoyances and offenses behind the sentiment, but still, the Internet of 2026 is vastly better than that of 1999. The amount of things you're just one quick search away from right now would break the brains of a 1999 netizen. We were still required to…

"Reading" the internet then going to buy a book from Borders or Barnes and Noble is a comfy memory to me. I liked the split between 'online' and 'offline' better than this semi-integrated present we live in

Lots of people have pleasant memories of bookstores, and are unhappy that those stores haven't thrived since the Internet, but not needing to schlep down to a store to buy information printed on dead trees is an unalloyed good.
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