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In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

electrek.co

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Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#171

Post by ggm »

storus wrote: post #166
ggm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"use it as a weapon" I do indeed filter inputs which behave like noise, on other attributes which can indicate noise. You took an adversarial and argumentative approach to an otherwise rational discussion. Asserting what I consider unfounded, and unrelated consequences in a thread. I don't expect you to consider this a negative in your own assessment of your own behaviour, I do, and I think an implied lack of introsp…

Obviously; the whole point of discussing on HN is to get exposed to variety of opinions and attitudes regardless of whether I mesh with them well or not; expressing IMO founded concerns about new tech is one of the reasons for commenting.

Founded, not well-founded I think. I can't see the evidence of intent for what you allege. I can see stupid policy. I can see failure to deploy. But to suggest the intent is remote control or track and trace, demands a basis. Whats your reasoning beyond supposition?

Why don't they e.g. do this with the BMW ICE cars which carry a SIM card?

Remember its the deploying state we're talking about, not the specific risk of BYD being under control of the CCP. Your response implied all EV in the UK, are part of a plan to supervise/monitor use of EV cars, not the foreign actor risk as I understand it.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#172

Post by MandieD »

barbazoo wrote: post #36
rebolek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death spiral to gas stations? why? EV cars need to charge somewhere (and on long trip it can’t be at home) and people need to take a break and grab a coffee sometime too. They will change, sure, but certainly not die. Refineries will be fewer but we do need another products from them also.

Chargers can be anywhere. They are at grocery stores, parking lots, restaurants, I can see the need for a dedicated re fuel station to disappear when charging is ubiquitous.

I've seen this on the Autobahns: what were just parking spots with unattended bathrooms are becoming little charging stations. Since I don't have an EV yet, I've not stopped at one to see how high-speed the chargers are, but at the very least, I assume that 10-15 minutes would be enough to get you somewhere more efficient/pleasant to wait for a full charge.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#174

Post by gib444 »

Of course EVs are perhaps a net benefit to society (noise, pollution etc) but at least be honest about the cost trajectory.

Any article that doesn't mention the cost of motorway/dual carriage way electric charging is being disingenuous. PAYG is 75-90p/kWh currently. Tesla superchargers with a subscription 57p/kWh (you'll pay with time, due to being busy)

And do you think when EV ownership becomes more popular, the 4p/kWh home charging rate is going to stick around? That is an insane discount compared to daytime electricity.

The UK does not have a good, cheap solution plentiful cheap electric in the next decade or two, so any major increase in demand will mean even higher costs.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#176

Post by graemep »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #89
cogman10 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK? Nah. Electricity is expensive in the UK (~25p/kWh) But not gas car expensive. It is £1.57/L (£5.94/gallon). The EV infrastructure is also pretty dang far along, especially compared to the US. Remember that everything in the UK is a lot smaller and closer together than it is in the US. Further, the UK has a functional train system for long distance travel. You can go from the top of Dunnet Head to Lizard Po…

"Functional train system" is not how anyone would describe the UK. It's cheaper to fly than take the train. Cost to fill up doesnt matter, only the cost per mile.

That is because of the cost structure of trains vs planes. Trains require a huge amount of infrastructure, and have higher labour costs because they are slower (so the same journey means people work for longer).

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#177

Post by Ekaros »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #84
sigio wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local government can quickly change that, if they get their act together. Here in the Hague, there's literally thousands of public chargers available on the city's residential streets. Coupled with the fact that the charging-price is city-mandated at a fixed rate (currently around 35ct/kwh), this gives a perfectly fine solution for most people. (I can charge at home, for 20ct/kwh currently, so that's even nicer)

35ct/kwh is highway robbery.

What is actually the realistic cost. Covering infra, the charger and the maintenance of everything involved. Power and transfer included, with transfer including any standing charges. And after that you probably want decent margin to well run the business.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#178

Post by izacus »

aunty_helen wrote: post #138

For anyone who hasn't been in a BYD, maybe because their government protects them from the open market, I'm sorry. It's over. We lost.

I've been in one and it's kinda meh? Its fine for what it is, but it's also filled with buggy bizarre issues on a level of VW ID.3 and doesn't match up with even something basic like latest Peugeot models.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#179

Post by graemep »

rootusrootus wrote: post #128
laughing_man wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like ICE buyers are subsidizing EV buyers. The math starts to get ugly as EVs become a larger percentage of the mix. ICEs will be priced out of the market, but there won't be anyone left to subsidize the EVs. In short, it sounds like buying a car is about to get a lot more expensive in the UK.

> It sounds like ICE buyers are subsidizing EV buyers. Given how long we have all been subsidizing ICE buyers, I think it is fair to spread the love around a little.

How are ICE buyers subsidised?

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#180

Post by graemep »

nickserv wrote: post #10

Unlike the EU and the US, the UK doesn't have any major car companies anymore, so there's less of an incentive for them to apply tariffs on Chinese imports.

Not UK headquartered car companies, but there is a lot of car manufacturing in the UK. There is still an industry and jobs to preserve.

Also, take a look at the reports on the knock on effects on suppliers of the JLR hack.

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