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College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

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171–180 of 451 posts

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#171
Remembering my college typewriter-use-by-quarters (coins) on a timer like being at the laundromat, I kind of love this.

At UT Arlington in the Stone Age we had a typewriter lab so folks without home computers with printers could still produce their papers typed, which was required. I had to get a roll of quarters ($10) to do a single paper. And the erase tape was always so used up it was useless.

It was one of the most sadistic things I remember about my college experience, trying to type on those crappy typewriter on a timer. With no errors. And I literally wrote it by hand before trying to transcribe it.

Good luck, we’re all counting on you.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#172

In one of my classes the approach was the opposite, I’m expected to do Ph.D level work as an undergrad and am expected to use AI. In a different one she just said so long as you say AI was used you’re fine to use it. In the rest of them AI is considered cheating. To say we have discrepancies in the rules in an understatement. No one seems to have the exact answer on how to do it. I personally feel like expecting Ph.D…

It's not inherently contradictory, just like using a calculator could be considered cheating depending on the context. If you're just learning basic arithmetic, a calculator is cheating since it shortcuts the path to learning. OTOH in calculus, a calculator is necessary. You still have to have a deep understanding of the concepts and functions to succeed. It's still a new tech so I'm not surprised a lot of teachers h…

Why do you need a calculator for calculus?!?

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#173

When I did my Computer Science degree the vast majority of courses were 50% final, 30% midterm - even programming exams were hand written, proctored by TAs in class or in the gymnasium - assignments/labs/projects were a small part of your grade but if you didn’t do them the likelihood you’d pass the term exams was pretty darn low. We already had AI proof education.

Bonus point: even if you use AI to prepare the submission, copying it down by hand will at least force you to _read_ it.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Microsoft Word stores revision history inside .docx files, and that’s been used to expose plagiarism. I heard about one case where a student took an existing paper (I believe from a previous year/student) and pasted it into Word. They then edited it just enough to make it look different. However, they didn’t remove the embedded revision history in the .docx file they submitted, so that went about as well as you…

Are you sure about that? I could easily see this happen with a web document link, but for a docx file the change tracking is off by default and pretty obtrusive. Basic metadata would be fine, formatting might be quirky but that's not exactly a smoking gun...

It’s been a while since I heard about it, but IIRC the professor was a stickler for a very specific paper format, so they would distribute a .docx template file with Track Changes already enabled and require students to write their papers using that template.

I also think that when track changes was first introduced in earlier versions of MS Word, there wasn’t as much concern about privacy/telemetry as there is now, so it wasn’t made as prominently obvious.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#175
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been more wasted time had I continued after a single year. I went to my first year of college on the advice of my well-meaning parents who are old and like most old people thought it was still important, and yet they agreed with my decision to leave after the first year on an offer for a real six-figure job because there was nothing to learn that I hadn't or couldn't have learned on my own. At least one…

> At least one of my own professors also openly wondered why I was there at all. I think you completely misunderstood this interaction. There are 2 possible explanations. 1. You are so smart/knowledgeable that the professor thinks you are beyond college. 2. You were acting like such an arrogant know-it-all that the professor was being sarcastic. I’ve seen #1, but I’ve seen #2 many times. You sound like you have a hug…

I had excellent interactions with my instructors. I interacted with them like human beings and they understood that their limited time would be better spent with students who didn't have the same energy I did. Several professors, when asked, put me through an impromptu whiteboard quiz and said yeah, do your own thing. It's great that you participated in the process in your own way. In my case I asked if I could show up for the final tests and nothing else, because the intermediate work would have been useless, received permission, and passed.

Chip on my shoulder - no, and it's a silly label to begin with. Understanding that it's for other people who value the paper more than intrinsic understanding, yeah.

EDIT: I will concede in some way that I'm proud of not having a degree, and it does influence my thoughts on this topic. I've met some real idiots that do, and I don't consider it a serious differentiator.

Also looking up the thread - at my early jobs, I was surrounded by many people who were interested in educating me on any topic I could think of, because similarly we were all being paid for our time. The difference between that and school was the assumption that we were both motivated and capable.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#176

In one of my classes the approach was the opposite, I’m expected to do Ph.D level work as an undergrad and am expected to use AI. In a different one she just said so long as you say AI was used you’re fine to use it. In the rest of them AI is considered cheating. To say we have discrepancies in the rules in an understatement. No one seems to have the exact answer on how to do it. I personally feel like expecting Ph.D…

If it’s any consolation, this problem of discrepancies in rules is very common at universities now.

I teach at two universities in Japan and occasionally give lectures on AI issues at others, and the consensus I get from the faculty and students I talk with is that there is no consensus about what to do about AI in higher education.

Education in many subjects has been based around students producing some kind of complex output: a written paper, a computer program, a business plan, a musical composition. This has been a good method because, when done well, students could learn and retain more from the process of creating such output than they would from, say, studying for and taking in-class tests. Also, the product often mirrored what the students would be doing in their future lives, so they were learning useful skills as well.

AI throws a huge spanner into that product-based pedagogy, because it allows students to short-cut the creation process and thus learn little or nothing. Also, it is no longer clear how valuable some of those product-creation skills (writing, programming, planning) will be in the years ahead.

And while the fundamental assumptions behind some widely used teaching methods are being overthrown, many educators, students, and administrators remain attached to the traditional ways. That’s not surprising, as AI is so new and advancing so rapidly that it’s very difficult to say with any confidence how education needs to change. But, in my opinion at least, it does need to change at a very fundamental level. That change won’t be easy.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not inherently contradictory, just like using a calculator could be considered cheating depending on the context. If you're just learning basic arithmetic, a calculator is cheating since it shortcuts the path to learning. OTOH in calculus, a calculator is necessary. You still have to have a deep understanding of the concepts and functions to succeed. It's still a new tech so I'm not surprised a lot of teachers h…

Why do you need a calculator for calculus?!?

Gotta add up all the curves

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I did tertiary studies in programming there wasn't AI but we did our programming exams in pencil and paper. The "beneficial" prep we had and I had since high school was using punch cards. And 24h turnaround time for compiles. That really makes you think. And you learn how to desk check even thousand line programs. Intense focus, structuring for readability (to catch typos) and simplicity (catch logic errors) hel…

Yeah i really valued learning to code when I didn't have the internet available, if taught me patience and deep thinking, problem decomposition and organic (brain) execution

I learned HTML/CSS from a book on a computer with no internet access. Seemed reasonable at the time but in hindsight was absolutely ridiculous.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#179
post #170

In one of my classes the approach was the opposite, I’m expected to do Ph.D level work as an undergrad and am expected to use AI. In a different one she just said so long as you say AI was used you’re fine to use it. In the rest of them AI is considered cheating. To say we have discrepancies in the rules in an understatement. No one seems to have the exact answer on how to do it. I personally feel like expecting Ph.D…

I'm really not seeing how you can do PhD level work as an undergrad. You wouldn't have the foundational knowledge necessary to do PhD level work, and you have no idea how much of what you're learning is accurate.

Without going into too much detail, when I said “Ph.D level” I’m meaning active research that adds a meaningful contribution to a field. I’ll probably be posting on here in a couple months about it but I’ve been doing thousands of tests with beefy GPUs on a certain theory we have about small 9b LLMs under certain external constraints.

Am I saying I’m as knowledgeable or capable as a Ph.D right now? Absolutely not. There’s just not really a terminology that correctly describes accelerated learning and iteration by use of AI since the technology is so new. I can’t speak for others but as someone who’s a senior in my physics degree, I’ve been actually learning faster by using AI. It’s either a mental crutch or mental accelerator. The difference is in if you want it to completely do work for you or if you try to learn and follow along.

It’s a very under explored and new area right now, how higher learning is effected by using AI as a tool instead of as a cheating device, but historically, new tools like the calculator or computer have done a lot to accelerate learning once new rules are in place.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#180
post #153
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally dislike placing a heavy emphasis on exams. Assignments/projects have been consistently the most enjoyable and rewarding parts of the courses I've taken so far in university. It's a shame that they are also way more susceptible to cheating with AI.

The problem with exams is that everyone has a bad experience with a poorly written one. Well-written exams will have questions that test students at different levels of understanding across the whole curriculum. So a student who only understands the basics should be able to answer most of the easy questions and students who have a deeper understanding can answer the harder ones. Well-written exams should feel pretty…

You're forgetting the a large percentage of the student body simply does not care to judge the material fairly. Any difficult exam where they receive a low grade is perceived as unfair and complained about online. Professors that test fairly are reviewed harshly online. Universities that prioritize education over graduation receive poor reviews. Top universities specifically coddle and push their students making it nearly impossible to fail.
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